Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on June 8, 2011 at 1:18pm

One change Shell did make here when they took over East was to go ahead and drill all six horizontal wells rather than just one horizontal.  Which saves them money in the long run:  East didn't have the $$ to do that.   I downloaded the DEP Permits spreadsheet the other day and Shell is doing the same in other parts of the county.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Austin Millbarge on June 13, 2011 at 5:42pm

I said that last year and I think most people here thought I was off base, but I was not and have been right all along.

 

And as I said then, oil and gas companies are not like many people who can't even contemplate what's for dinner much less what happens next year.  These companies think 50-100 years out and the "company" is a continuing entity that outlives employees.

 

With Tioga County all these companies are doing is buying in at 2008+ prices and getting leases and land locked down for decades and beyond.  The gas will be ready and waiting when prices are right.  That could be 2022, 2032, 2042, doesn't matter.

 

For people though that thought they'd get rich for nothing, well some did, but many wont and they might not live to see any returns.  It is what it is and also it isn't "criminal" either.  Just business.  And if people don't want to sign, and Lynn has been the biggest complainer in county history about whether to sign or not, it's a business deal.  You might win big.  Or not.  And if you don't want it, don't take it.

 

For the bitza land holders that don't sign, they can easily get worked around for now and maybe in 50 years, their heirs will sign.  Ultimately I think people get too worked up over the bonus to sign money as the royalties and that percentage is where it is at.  Bickering over a few hundred bucks for bonus money is a sign of someone that lives paycheck to paycheck and is clueless about money and business. 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on June 14, 2011 at 12:25am

"And if people don't want to sign, and Lynn has been the biggest complainer in county history about whether to sign or not, it's a business deal.  You might win big.  Or not.  And if you don't want it, don't take it."

 

The question for me has NEVER been 'whether' to sign, I resisted signing a boiler-plate, low royalty lease (just for the cash) like all my neighbors did because it wasn't a good deal. Yes, it's a business deal. When you are selling a valuable resource, the point is to get the best deal possible, including protecting your property and your heirs.  Shell needs me to complete their unit and I need all the information I can get to make the best decisions, so I ask lots of questions. That's the point of sites like this.

Permalink Reply by Tom Brian on June 14, 2011 at 3:08am

Lynn ; Hope you know what you are doing , To me it does not seem that you have thought this through. hope you are young because once they have drilled around you  and done the fracking any chance of setting up to include your little spot of riches is close to zero. the same goes for those that feel the need for a buck or three more than their neighbors recived for a gathering line across a pasture, progress will not feel any pain as it passes y'all bye.

Tom

Permalink Reply by Austin Millbarge on June 14, 2011 at 3:54am

Yep once they frac that will be it for a generation or more, until the other shale layers below come on line over the next century.

 

She has probably already been passed by or will be passed by.  Any county that is nearly locked down with leases, it is inevitable that there are always a few holdouts.

 

Everything is always a risk, no one really knows the future or what it holds, no one probably could have guessed this would happen 10 years ago.

 

I've seen booms and busts first hand.  Wellsboro and Mansfield could continue to boom for years if the gas flows or turn into economic wastelands if the gas industry shuts down for a while.  Could go either way.

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on June 14, 2011 at 4:09am

They haven't drilled the horizontals yet. My property extends far into their unit, completely blocking the path of at least one horizontal. I'm gambling that stopping a horizontal well at 2/3 of the planned distance is not acceptable to them. Would they actually lose that much production to avoid giving me a reasonable bonus/royalty (I'm asking $2500/acre, 18% royalty)?  If they won't do that, I have survived just fine without them all my life, and can continue to do so.

Permalink Reply by Austin Millbarge on June 14, 2011 at 3:44am

When you put your property on the scale and scope of what Shell does worldwide and all it's various entities, your land is a tiny part of that, enough hassle and they've got other things to do.  I doubt Shell needs your land to complete a unit and there are ways around that.

 

At the end, to me the landowners are making out pretty good seeing how something a mile down is being extracted and the landowner doesn't lift a finger, provide equipment, manpower, know how, pipelines/transportation, etc.

 

What exactly are you aiming for in terms of signing money and royalty?

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on June 14, 2011 at 4:20am

Well, we own a resource, and they want it. Like you say, it's just business, and they want it at the cheapest price. The unit is declared and the vertical well is drilled. As I mentioned above, my property is blocking at least one of their horizontals...completely blocking it...no way they can 'go around' me (sounds like THEY didn't think this through very well...I could exploit their lack of planning). They physically can't put the planned three horizontal wells in past my property (two, possible, but not the third); their only choice is to lease me or stop one of the horizontals a couple thousand feet short.

I would be happy with $2500/acre, 18% royalty. That's far less than others in nearby areas have gotten from other companies, and in no way an unreasonable request. East refused two years ago, thinking that forced pooling was going to become law and they could force me in on their terms. They lost that gamble.

Permalink Reply by Brian V. on June 14, 2011 at 5:19am

Lynn your not missing out on anything now or in the near future so just sit tight and enjoy the game. You may win you may lose but you have enough land and enough leverage in that unit and any future unit to get what you want within reason as I see it. Just sit tight and enjoy the game.

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on June 14, 2011 at 5:37am

For now, I'm waiting to see what TTLC comes up with. If they get a decent offer, I'd put it up to Shell to match or better it. I'd even take Shell's crummy lease, with a few environmental addenda and the Clean and Green rollback (both of which they are willing to do). I looked at the plot map for the unit again, and not having me leased is SO screwing up their unit.

Poor, poor planning to declare the unit and plan the horizontals without having secured all the leases. They have declared other units around this one, so it's not like they can move it. They are having the same problem with the horizontals in the other direction in this unit...a large chunk of unleased land in the way. You'd think with so much investment and profit at stake they could get their act together.

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