Solar Energy Plant Kills Birds, Threatens Airline Pilots

As if we need another reason not to put much stock into solar energy until it is perfected a bit more.

This plant uses an array of mirrors on the ground that focus sun light onto a boiler that creates steam and thus electricity.

First, the plant takes up far more space than a shale well pad. Then there is the fact that errant rays from the mirrors blind pilots. Finally, and saddest, the rays from the mirrors literally cook birds as they fly over (killing them.

Add this to the wind mills that shred passing birds.

http://www.newser.com/story/192652/why-birds-are-igniting-midair-ov...

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Permalink Reply by Zack Smith, Geologist/Appraiser on August 25, 2014 at 2:53am

As always, numbers are irrelevant without context and as a scientist facts matter. Several years ago, this subject was in the scientific news while I was still doing some teaching at a local university, so I did some research and calculations that I could knowledgeably answer my students' questions.

A standard coal-burning power plant kills 2,000-3,000 birds a day due to flight through the plume - the caveat I add to these studies is that a majority of those studies were performed near migration seasons which could bias that number high. However, even the highest estimates of deaths due to windmills or solar panels are dwarfed by the number killed by power plants.

But, the number of birds killed by any of the above is dwarfed by the number killed by domesticated cats annually - so if you're really concerned about birds, declaw your cats....

015334grltd9mPermalink Reply by 015334grltd9m on August 25, 2014 at 3:09am
Zack, refreshing, nice to read professionals again on this site. Do you contract out? Recently an associate hired HBK here in Youngstown for an appraisal, screwed up the whole deal. "Declaw your cats rotflmao!"
Permalink Reply by Zack Smith, Geologist/Appraiser on August 25, 2014 at 3:50am

Yes, I contract out mostly to landowners, or their attorneys, and banks. You can private message me for more info or contact information. Most of the work I do is for IRS and/or litigation applications, so I work with an MAI to cover all our bases. Depending upon the complexity and the client's needs we also have worked closely with a retired mineral appraiser/petroleum engineer from the Army Corps of Engineers, especially if it's for litigation involving an operator.

015334grltd9mPermalink Reply by 015334grltd9m on August 25, 2014 at 3:57am
Can you call me now 330 707 9688.
Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 25, 2014 at 3:21am

Zack,

There is no doubt that many human activities have a negative effect on animal populations.

The point here is that the anti fossil fuel crowd continually trumpets the negative effects of shale development on the environment in general and fauna in specific.

Just wanted to point out that alternative sources of energy also have negatives associated with them. They are not the panacea that they are portrayed as being.

Permalink Reply by Jon on August 25, 2014 at 3:49am

I don't know why people think "clean" energy is actually clean. It's not clean, it's just different. Solar panels are also highly toxic.

Permalink Reply by Appalachian on August 26, 2014 at 7:54am

Zack,

There is no doubt that many human activities have a negative effect on animal populations.

The point here is that the anti fossil fuel crowd continually trumpets the negative effects of shale development on the environment in general and fauna in specific.

Just wanted to point out that alternative renewable (and infinite when speaking of solar) sources of energy also have negatives associated with them. They are not the panacea that they are portrayed as being.

I have never felt that Solar energy has been presented as a panacea (yup, had to look it up), but have always viewed it as a sensible alternative to popular methods.  The negative associated with solar energy generation at this time for me personally doesn't have to do with generation, but instead with storage.  Battery technologies need to increase and become more efficient and cheaper before solar becomes a viable option for my home as a primary energy source.  I am however highly intrigued at the thought of no electric bill coming to my residence....perhaps even a check in it's place for any excess I could send back into the grid.

The issue has become polarized, just like any other issue in this country these days with no middle ground.  I am a middle ground kind of guy.  Unless cold fusion suddenly becomes reality, there is not an infallible source for our energy needs.

Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 27, 2014 at 7:03am

Appalachian,

I agree that there is too much polarization. But I do believe there is a middle ground.

Natural gas and alternatives such as wind and solar could be used as combined sources of electricity. Electric plants using natural gas are more easily idled then brought back to capacity than those fired by coal. So when the wind blows or the sun shines electricity could be created from those sources. When there is no wind or sunshine the plant is brought up to capacity using natural gas.

This "middle ground" allows for the development of effective storage options. But even then there will still be a need for the use of natural gas fired electric plants.

Permalink Reply by craig on August 25, 2014 at 4:17am

I'm not trying to down play the bird deaths of any type of energy production. However, after researching this subject a bit I can only see preliminary assessments and not actual studies that have been done to support your # claims. I also note that the numbers used calculate your "facts" included 'global warming' caused deaths into the data you state.  Sorry these are not facts, just guesses. 

However the article about the solar kills states :

"Federal wildlife investigators who visited the BrightSource Energy plant last year and watched as birds burned and fell, reporting an average of one "streamer" every two minutes, are urging California officials to halt the operator's application to build a still-bigger version."  And that wasn't during a migration..... and this plant is right in their migratory flight path.

I'm a numbers guy, and yes you can make numbers say most anything you want if presented properly.

FWIW dept.  Your house kills on average one bird per year..... we have over 125 million homes.

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on August 25, 2014 at 11:04pm
Zack

I don't doubt your expertise in this area but, I live near a coal fired power plant. given the number of environmental extremists who live in my town and along the river where the power plant is located, if 3000 birds were killed per day flying through the plume, it's my opinion we'd know about it. That statistic sounds a bit incredulous in my experience. I can honestly say, we have never seen any correlation to the power plant with dead birds in our town. Not to say there is't one, just, I would expect some sort of public outcry and evidence. Environmental activists actually had the plant closed this year but they never sighted bird mortality in their reason. It was always downwind pollution. We have a healthy population of all sorts of avian wildlife including migratory birds in our area. There was only one inexplicable instance that I can recall seeing some small birds dead on our property but that was during a period where there would have been no activity at the power plant. (It was peak demand facility). There was no public mention of it. Some one was observed picking some of them up alond the road. This may have been one instance of a "bird kill" but it never made the papers.

Thanks for the input though. I will have to dig a little deeper.
Permalink Reply by pinehill on August 25, 2014 at 4:17am

Actually solar energy is one of the drivers for power companies to convert to gas.  They use gas for power when the solar is not producing. This is an interesting article you might like.

http://peakoil.com/alternative-energy/sorry-solar-and-wind-but-natu...

Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 25, 2014 at 4:38am

pinehill,

I agree that the use of natural gas should not be seen as opposed to using solar or wind energy. In fact the use of each is complimentary.

We all know that "the wind don't blow and the sun don't shine" all of the time. By using natural gas in electric plants  it is easier for the plants to power up and power down so that when the wind does blow and the sun does shine those forms of energy production can be utilized. And when those forms of energy aren't available then natural gas provides the fuel to produce electricity.

So the use of natural gas and alternatives such as wind and solar are complimentary.

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