Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Philip Brutz on April 6, 2012 at 11:22pm

I hope that you are right.

Permalink Reply by Cheyenne on April 7, 2012 at 12:27pm

We agree, the O&G Companies and the landowners should not allow a person with no legal right to the oil and gas under our lands to intimidate, delay, obstruct or prevent us from moving forward. The drilling should start now a few months out ahead of murrays longeall and when Murray rears his loud head up in protest, we should just continue producing. If he wants to file in the court let him file. This time with lots if eyes in the court, perhaps fairness and ethics will be in check.

Permalink Reply by Cheyenne on April 7, 2012 at 12:56pm

Against the local grain, my family all voted for our current Governor. We have supported him in his decisions and spoke well of him even when opposed by large and loud crowds.
We do this basically because we believe in the old ways more than we do the new ways of thinking and living. For example, we are anti big govt welfare programs and think that people should work in order to care for themselves instead of whining to the taxpayers for more more and more. We believe in fairness, that's why we supported the Governor in his stance against the big unions who sometimes retain slackers at the expense of the taxpayers. We also believe that Judges should make informed, impartial and fair decisions even when lobby offers lots of $$$$ and pressure to sway the court in their favor.
We are confident that the current Governor will get this squared away soon and do it better than what was done in the past with a not so informed local court.

Permalink Reply by John C Sprouse on April 7, 2012 at 11:23pm

One must remember the ownership of the No. 8 coal in Belmont, Monroe and Harrison Counties is a property right as much as the surface right.  Much of this was severd as early as 1898 , 1910 and 1920.s .   The coal company is protected by the law just as the normal citizen of these rights.  There are a number of court cases that reinforce these rights.  There was a case in Monroe County involving the Gas transmission line over Mine No. 4 in which the company had to dig up the line and float it while Quarto Longwalled under it.  THe Coal Company's rights where upheld.  The most recent one was " Datkuliaks Vs American Energy" which was in Monroe county.  THe landowner and oil company had to plug the well at their costs since American Energy was going to mine through it.  The Ohio Supreme Court refused the Appellate Courts decision and therefore these rights were upheld. 

The long and short of this is this is the law of the land and most leases over much of these coal reserves have the same language.  Some few may not but I believe this is very few and may be refering to shallower seams like the No. 9 coal.

  THis will have an impact on the drilling as well as the collection lines of oil and gas transmission above the mine area and especially longwall areas.  My advice is to get over it __this is the law.   There will be areas outside the mine area or abandoned sections of the mine in which the drilling can occur but it takes coordination with the mining company.  THe oil company will need to find these areas,coordinate with the coal company and then can have horizontals under the mined areas.  This will take some work but it can be done.   Don't expect the coal mining companies to forfeit their property rights just because you want a well.  It will not happen.

I worked for ODNR Minerals for 32 years and Oil and Gas and as a coal geologist in  Lousiana, Mississippi, and Wyoming and  and am now retired.  I am not blowing smoke up you rear.

 

Permalink Reply by Cheyenne on April 8, 2012 at 8:10am

"Get over it !"  This War is just getting started.

Remember this, A judge can make decision in a courtroom but the landowners can vote to replace the judge, the Governor and on up the ladder from there.

Permalink Reply by Cheyenne on April 10, 2012 at 8:46am

You're right.
However, I dont recall anyone running against Selmon in Monroe County since that ruling.
Maybe someone will do that in the future.
In my opinion 7th District needs cleaned up.
Locals continue to repeat the same mistake over and over when they vote for the political party over the candidates personal character.
The truth is that many don't even understand the true facts about day to day intentions of their political party.

Permalink Reply by Philip Brutz on April 8, 2012 at 9:22am

John, my land is just east of Quaker City in Guernsey co.  I own all of my coal rights but I have friends in Belmont that do not own their rights.  Do you know where they stopped buying up the coal rights?  I am just guessing that it was the Belmont / Guernsey line. 

Permalink Reply by John C Sprouse on April 9, 2012 at 12:14am

The old underground mining rights with leases followed the No. 8 Seam.  As you proceed west the No. 8 is stripped mined as you proceed north into Jefferson County it is stripped mine and near the surface.   I would venture to say you probably do not a problem since these old rights involved mostly language in the deeds dealing with  deep mining but to some extent surface mining  especially with Consol operations but perform a deed research on this.  THe Geology of the coal changes as you get into Guernsey county after you pass the Cambridge Anticline/Syncline.  The upper Freeport Coal was the main seam in Guernsey County and the geology is different.  Your in this transition zone.

By the way Phil it appears I stirred up quite a fuss.  Ths was not intended but more to the point out that the oil companies will have to work with the surface owner as well as the coal owner since it in itself is a property ownership.  I was a mine inspector on Mine 6 and the Allison Mine for ODNR surface impacts from 1979-85.  This work included all underground mines in Monroe, Harrision, Jefferson and Belmont County as well as Consol Surface operations.  I was involved in the  the original permit reviews on these mines as well as Lead Enforcement of the Reclamation mine law.  At that time No 6 and Allison were room and pillar mines and were not owned by Murray.  The Century was own by Y&O and the No. 6 by North American.  The only mines at that time that were longwall were Quarto No. 4 and No. 7, and Consols Oak pARK which was in the 6 coal in Harrison County.

  I wish you all well.  I hope you all can work your conflicts so that all can prosper-- the coal mines and Oil gas companies and the landowners.    Good day.

Permalink Reply by Philip Brutz on April 9, 2012 at 7:43am

John, I hope that you will stay in this debate, it is a very important one. How was the transition from room and pillar to longwall allowed to happen?  I think that the landowners that sold their coal rights 100 years ago did not agree to having their water wells destroyed and their houses broken in half.    Some people are in an uproar about a few water wells in Dimock PA.  Here in Belmont and Monroe we may lose thousands of water wells. Some compromise must happen.  Maybe leaving a pillar every square mile to allow for a drill pad?  That way landowners can benefit this oil and gas boom before they die instead of 30 years from now.

Permalink Reply by John C Sprouse on April 9, 2012 at 8:24am

Phil

I will not stay in this debate.  Too many extreme opinions with little knowledge base with accusations to boot.  The old leases also gave away subsidence rights and the longwall technology came about like any other improvements in methods.   Ohio mining law reguires water replacement and damage repair.

 Your comment on leaving pillars may occur naturally in the design of the longwall panels and the coal companies may be inclined to provide it especially if compensated for unmined areas. Much like the sign on bonus of surface ownership.   Conflict resolution between resources is always tough and even tougher when nutcase extremist are involved.  They harm this process rather than help it.

 

Permalink Reply by Cheyenne on April 9, 2012 at 9:26am

Lots of folks have profited from King Coal, many of them still have stocks in the coal and rail industry. You can probably imagine that some working with certain state agencies are no exception.
Who speaks for the landowners? King Coal no doubt has several lobbyist on payroll golfing with and encouraging the various politicians and state officials. This is how things are done on America. It all comes down to $$$$, and we farmers just can't compete in the bidding.
When we speak up about our rights some of them cite a shoddy local court ruling or some lobby inspired state rule, or they insinuate that we are crazy or extremist.
What's Crazy is us landowners setting back and not producing what is rightfully owned by us just because some united coal interest and those that they have influenced
shoves us in line and tells us to surrender our arms and swear loyalty to their superior agenda.
Win or lose, I reckon I'll be riden with the Reb.

Permalink Reply by Cheyenne on April 9, 2012 at 3:22pm

Why then did the local Monroe Court Judge and the 7th dist. appeals court rule in favor of Murray in the face of such clear language in the contract?
Why do some state regulatory agencies appear to continually create an environment wherein Murray can feel so superior over all others?
A reasonable person may wonder if this special status comes at a price.
It would be interesting to have 60 Minutes come in here and break this all down so that everyone can look under the blanket to see who all sleeps in this bed together.

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