What's going on in your area?? any info???

Just curious...

     I am in Liberty township and a few months ago got an offer to buy my royalties for 1500 to 1800 per acre, but they would do a more in-depth look if I was serious which "mite change the numbers" slightly....even tho I am not drilled or receiving any royalties ..talked to a landsman rite b4 I contacted them and he advised caution as there will be "significant" activity in my area in the "near future"....how about it, anybody else get an offer or hear anything or see any activity here in Tioga Co. ?

Views: 138359

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on November 29, 2013 at 1:55pm
Isn't Trenton Black River the target formation that started this whole thing in 05?
Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 29, 2013 at 3:45pm

Not really - the Trenton Black River was never found to be productive south of the NY line, and was only productive to the north in very limited geologically distinct areas. It's not a shale, and didn't need to be drilled horizontally or hydro-fractured. There wasn't any causal connection between the TBR exploration done in the 1990s onward and the shale gas revolution of which Utica exploration is just a small part.

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on November 29, 2013 at 4:44pm

There was a relationship in the sense that Phillips, ERI, and Talisman (Fortuna) T/BR leases in PA were subsequently used to drill unconventional wells.  Iirc, a Talisman spokesman said several years ago that Talisman and ERI drilled about 60 TBR wells in NYS, about half of which were successful.  Of course TB/R drilling stopped once unconventional drilling started. 

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 29, 2013 at 5:10pm

That's like saying there was a relationship between the Marcellus and every company and alternative drilling target in PA since there were active leases all over the state when the Marcellus was first assumed to be potentially productive, and wells were drilled under those leases too. My point is that the prior activity testing the TBR wasn't a factor in the development of the Marcellus play except incidentally. All the productive TBR wells were in New York, so the impact on Pennsylvania just wasn't there. The leases in PA you mentioned weren't "TBR" leases either - none of those companies was fixated on the TBR in PA because it hadn't been productive there, and few people thought it would be.

TBR drilling didn't stop because of the discovery of the Marcellus, by the way - the industry's success rate had been dropping steadily near the end. Belden & Blake drilled 18 straight duds, I believe, and PGE sold out when they decided there were very few remaining grabens worth testing. Anschutz was still looking for TBR prospects just a few years ago in New York, however, so that play may not be completely over yet. The history of the business in our area isn't as simple as the guy from Talisman suggested.

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on November 29, 2013 at 11:18pm
In 06 a guy I knew from the state said as much to me about Macellus. Maybe the gas cos knew there was shale gas but the explanation I got was they "discovered" it in pursuits of formations like TBR. Jackie Root, in the day told me that the source of early anticipation was based on TBR.

So, I guess what you guys are suggesting, and I believe and respect you positions in the industry, is that this recent (last 10 years) activity was always a out shale gas. Is that right? And that would explain the terms of the early leases that included all formations and techniques of extraction.

It still frosts me that the state knew all of this and offered very little guidance to we, the tax payer residents, when these early leases were floating around. Water under the bridge.
Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 30, 2013 at 2:35am

Where do these stories start? Jackie Root wasn't even in the business before the shale development started, so how would she know anything. The Marcellus wasn't discovered while pursuing the TBR. The Marcellus was being produced commercially in the Finger Lakes region as early as the 1880s, and we have a 1931 Marcellus producer on one of our properties in McKean County. Similarly the Utica had been marginally productive in Ohio for many years. None of these shale formations was "discovered" in the last 75 years.

All that was discovered since 2006/2007 was how to make profitable wells in these shales by combining hydrofracing with horizontal drilling. The shales themselves and the fact that they contained gas were well known to everyone in the business long before then.  

Permalink Reply by Thomas Lilli on November 30, 2013 at 3:21am
Jack,

"Where do these stories start"

In July of 2006' I received a letter from Bourbou to lease my mineral rights for a five year lease on behalf of ANADARKO. A friend of mine living in Middlebury center instructed me to contact Jackie Root and that she had been putting a group together for the last year in his area. I spoke at length with her at that time and she told me about leases and the TBR. In our discussions she spoke about the rock formation being like Swiss cheese nd how it would be as much as two miles deep in Tioga Co. She said nothing of Marcellus back then and No mention of any other structure.

I only mention this to you because you ask "where do these stories get started"? Well, if your implying they are falsehoods, I can only tell you my experience. I did not know her credentials other than to say she knew lots more than I did.

As time marched on, I was able to contact a guy whose name I'd prefer not to list here but was at one time with the state, then an O&G company and last I heard was with a trade advocacy organization. He's the one who suggested to me that the Marcellus was a discovery from work being done on deeper formations.

I tell you this not to argue or to negate your input and superior knowledge but to say, this is what I was told by those individuals. If this is a story that got started, then. Ow you know how it got started.

Having said that, It does not surprise me to learn from you that O&G companies knew full well about shale gas. That was my suspicion as I said above.
Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 30, 2013 at 5:15am

What I said is that the industry knew that the shales existed. They didn't know that any particular shale in PA would be profitable to produce by a combination of horizontal drilling and hydrofracing. Only time and testing could establish that. I'm not surprised that plenty of people don't know the history of the play, but there isn't really any debate about it. Everyone who was active in the industry then knows how things developed.

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 30, 2013 at 2:29am

Leases very seldom mention any formations by name, and Phillips leases at that time certainly didn't. (We signed several ourselves.) The Marcellus is above the Oriskany, and you would have to drill through it to even reach the Oriskany, so the whole story makes no sense.

There was really no lasting transfer of wealth involved either, as the value when the old leases were signed was what the leasors got paid - neither side knew any better. Had East not been bought out by Shell they would have gone bankrupt by 2010, so you can't say that any wealth flowed their way in the long term either.  

Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on November 30, 2013 at 3:13am

From a Phillips lease offered in Tioga County ~2000:
"Unitization.  Lessee is hereby granted the right to pool and unitize the Onondage, Oriskany, or deeper formations under all or any part of the land described above ..."  etc.

Permalink Reply by Brian Day on November 30, 2013 at 4:53am

I suspectr this helped cover them for unitization in a formation below the Onendaga.  Formations below the Onendaga fall under Der jurisdiction as to spacing, if they choose to step into such contraversies. 

East was paid hansomely by Shel I think, so yes a large portion of wealth transferred from land owners to East via Shell's financing.

The BR/T is a couple of thousand feet below the Utica and Point Pleasant formations and not particularly related to it except through faulting perhaps.  Likely there is no more interaction betwenn it and the Utica than the Utica interacts with the Marcellus through faulting.  I am not a gelogist and do not pretend to be.  Be careful of those who do borrow that hat from the company rack, even though it belongs to some other personnel.

The BR/T is indeed drilled hoizontally often to cut across its limited formation and gain the greatest interactive surface area.  T/BR formations have an infinite variety of shape and size, which is still being explored.  Effective horizontal drilling is more complicated, but still a more productive method of attacking the problem.

All of this information is readily available by Googling T/BR on the internet.

Permalink Reply by Jack Young on November 30, 2013 at 5:20am

Not sure where my initial comment went - the TBR and the Utica are right next to each other, with the Utica being the source rock for the TBR. They are completely related, just like the Marcellus and Oriskany. That's really important to know if you want to understand either play.

RSS

© 2024   Created by Keith Mauck (Site Publisher).   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service