Oil gas rights vs mineral rights

I just had a offer to sell a piece of land and I retain the  oil / gas rights while giving the buyer the mineral rights . Will I have any issues / downfalls in the future with my gas rights ? Thanks for all replies . Joe 

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Permalink Reply by Ralph cramdon on April 23, 2015 at 8:29am

Here is another piece of info . 

 My attorney did some research today and discovered that there is a current case in the courts in PA . The case revolves around a person claiming that they have the mineral rights and that the shale rock is in fact a mineral , therefore the gas right holder cannot harvest the gas from the shale rock which the rights owner claims is a mineral . 

Permalink Reply by Utica Watcher on April 23, 2015 at 10:50am

Ralph,

I'd be leery of the verbiage your potential buyer has presented.  "Minerals" is too vague a term, for the reason you just referenced above.  The buyer knows why he/she is making an offer for the mineral rights on your property...I'd make them list out very specifically what minerals are being transferred (i.e.: limestone, coal (maybe only a specific vein), etc.).

In your situation, I'd be scared that the buyer would bring a lawsuit or make a claim sometime in the future that "minerals" include the gas/oil rights you were supposedly allowed to keep.

Best of luck.

Permalink Reply by Gringo on April 23, 2015 at 10:55am

Pa supreme court already cleared this up in Butler vs Powers. Oil and gas is not part of the mineral estate. It is common to retain O&G rights and transfer Mineral rights. Attached is Reservation Language. One other issue is when you reserve the mineral rights you will get a tax bill for them, oil and gas is not taxed. This is for PA. NY may be different.

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Permalink Reply by george m vietze on April 24, 2015 at 12:50am

Would "gravel-sand" be considered a mineral?  Is the property in an area where gravel could be sold?

Permalink Reply by Ralph cramdon on April 24, 2015 at 1:10am

As I have mentioned in a earlier post , my attorney has taken note of a pending case in PA were the mineral owner has taken claim to the shale rock as a mineral , then claiming the gas is derived from the 'mineral shale' . 

Permalink Reply by Jonathan H on April 24, 2015 at 3:02am

Yes, they are a type of mineral, and I know of surface owners (in other states) who had to get the permission of the mineral owner for small scale extraction.

Permalink Reply by Ralph cramdon on April 24, 2015 at 4:23am

We have written up a new contract and have included mineral rights along with gas/ oil rights . Thanks for all the input , it is a useful discussion . Joe 

Permalink Reply by Janice L. Hancharick on April 24, 2015 at 5:42am

I'm familiar w/ Cattaraugus and Allegany counties in NY.  Your minerals of value could be streambed gravel which has been dredged up considerably outside of Portville headed towards Eldred, PA and across the PA line on Rte 44 S .  Turn @ Ceres and heads toward Shinglehouse, you'll see what I mean.

It will likely be a bonus for you to hold onto the  O&G, esp. if you go into a long term care facility sometime in the future.  Don't let the deep ponds on both sides of Rte.44S scare you for O&G development.  Note laterals can reach out for 2 miles now.  Who knows what it will be by the time NY allows drilling?????

Permalink Reply by K2 on April 23, 2015 at 8:23am

In Ohio, oil and gas are taxed at production.  So is coal. But if the other mineral rights (limestone, clay, iron ore etc) are separated from the surface owner, they can be taxed yearly even though no production is occurring.  Each county has their own assessment rate on these other minerals.  The taxes can be quite high on these.  Therefore before you retain them when selling your surface property, you will want to check with your county auditor to understand what the tax implications will be. 

Permalink Reply by bo boboski on April 23, 2015 at 9:29am

The lawyers in Ohio /PA. WVA. are making out bigtime on the oil&gas inerests.It's a great time to be one in the Shale plays.

Permalink Reply by Dott on April 25, 2015 at 1:22pm

I don't know if this is true or of any consequence but at one point the O&G company who holds our lease (not drilled) told us that they were waiting for the Coal Industry to sign off on whether they would allow drilling in the area in which we hold OIL and Gas Rights, because

 in Ohio the Coal Industry has first rights of refusal on whether to mine the area or not.

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