RECEIVED CHECK FROM ULTRA PETROLEUM, NOW TOLD WE DO NOT OWN MINERAL RIGHTS

We own a 4.62 acre plot on Laurel Crest off Shin Hollow road in Gaines. We received a check for a five year lease this past august from ultra petroleum. When I called the ultra rep today to check on the status of any royalites that might be forthcoming, he told me that he was terribly sorry, but that a mistake had been made in mailing checks out to landowners in my area, that, in fact, we did not own mineral rights, that dominion resources had severed the rights to these parcels back in 1937, but that we could keep the check since it was their mistake. Just curious, has anyone else run into this situation. Needless to say we are a bit shell shocked by this revalation. Any and all info would be appreciated

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on September 27, 2010 at 7:32am
Wow; did you go to the Court House to make sure? I checked my deed, and found that there had been an oil and gas lease on my property many years ago, but it was released (discharged?) by the company. It's all recorded with the deed.
Permalink Reply by William Ladd on September 27, 2010 at 8:39am
Lynn is probably right about the lease. But you can never really be sure unless you check it out thouroly. Some of these companies check back for more then 100 years. If you only have 4.62 acres I presume your land is now mainly for a hunting camp or vacation area.

Bill L.
aka Bummy
Permalink Reply by DOUG BREEN on September 27, 2010 at 7:52am
hello lynn,
Thanks for your reply. I live in New Jersey, so I won't be able to get access to these records in the near future. I was relying on the company to do their due diligence and conduct a very thorough title search. The representative from Ultra said that they have had this problem with this area in particular(shin hollow), and that almost everyone who owned land in that area did not have mineral rights. Thanks again for your comments.
Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on September 27, 2010 at 1:16pm
You might check these forums to see if anyone else has posted about the same problem.
http://www.huntingpa.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?Cat=
Permalink Reply by Brian V. on September 27, 2010 at 10:26am
I'm wondering how your minerals were severed. Does Dominion hold a gas storage right or did they actually buy the minerals in 1937 as apposed to lease them.

If you can't get to the Tioga County court house you could try LANDEX. At that site you could follow your deed chain back to the mineral severance. It costs money and could get complicated though. You also could hire an abstractor from the Wellsboro area. Most of the law offices have their own abstractors or can point you to one.
Permalink Reply by DOUG BREEN on September 28, 2010 at 1:07am
Thanks Brian for the info, will take this into consideration. This just seems very strange to me, that a major company presumably employing expert title search companies,can make such a basic mistake, pay thousands of dollars out, and then say it was a mistake, keep the money, especially when I assume that I am not the only landowner up in that area that this has happened to, it makes me shake my head in wonder.
Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on September 28, 2010 at 2:25am
You're overestimating how thorough the "experts" are. (and how complete/organized the county records are). The several filled-in leases offered to me by landmen have had errors in the property description And the county plat book of maps has the sub-parcels and total acreage incorrectly represented.

Unless Ultra has indicated they plan to surrender the lease, it may still potentially be of value to them. Afaik sub-surface rights generally dominate, but also having a lease could avoid legal hassles over uses like rights-of-way. Don't know, but that's a possible explanation.
Permalink Reply by Oil and Gas nightmare on October 2, 2010 at 6:10am
Hi..you can call the court house, ask them the fees to pull records for you, you pay for the copies..and it should be easy to follow UNLESS they kept poor records but, I did this and traced my land back to 1805 becasue, you take the deed you have now, somewhere on it should say something like fee simple if you purchased it all and land and minerals are yours. if when you look at that deed and its says "excepting and reserving blah blah", then the rights are someone eles's. The main way is get a copy of every thing they reference in that deed, in otherwords it should say something like "the same land describe in said deed volume blah page blah" and you pull that and then on that deed if it say the same thing references another deed the pull that all the way back...I know you live out of state but if you call the court house and ask them if for a fee can they pull this deed and that and mail you a copy, you can then get the deeds and then tell them to pull what ever it references. I would send them a check for say $20 if its like 50 cents a page and then as you get the deeds and see the other deed book and page numbers the deed references, you can call up and ask them to send you the next one and so on and so forth until you get to the original deed. AND if you get a lawyer to really look at it, becasue there was a lease on it before, if they had the well on there say from 1960 but hadnt touched it in X amount of years, I think the lawyers can argue on your behalf that hey, your full of crap, your just trying to keep my land even though this lease has more than expired...it sucks becasue what if they where conning you and saying oh heres a check for what we have "ALREADY" got for you out of this well, and infact they handnt touched it til this year and knew your lease was actal expired but new that if they started "producing" they could hold it still as theirs...i am not 100% how that works, so I maybe a little off on how I am explaining that BUT i would have a oil and gas lawyer from the area where the land is look at all of the old deeds and leases to see if they swindled you to claim the land...or it could be that it was all true and it s not yours but the whole "you can keep the money" makes me question that...who in this economy is willing to say, Oh I know I gave you a few thousand dollars but ..my bad, just keep it?????
Permalink Reply by Sara A. Worsham on September 28, 2010 at 5:51am
A lot of the time, when a company goes into an area, they take leases from the surface owner to secure as many leases as possible in an area, then go back and take the time to do the research. It takes quite a bit of time to research the property back into the 1800's, so in order to get as much leased in as quick of a manner as possible, the research is completed after the leases have been taken. A lot of the time the surface owner does own the minerals, so most of the leases are good, but there are times that the research will prove that the minerals were severed by a prior owner. I have seen severances back in the late 1800's. The company will most likely give you a copy of the deed in which the minerals were severed if you request a copy, if not, they should at least be able to provide you with the volume/page in which the document is located. Hope this information helps.
Permalink Reply by DOUG BREEN on September 28, 2010 at 7:26am
Thank you all for your information. It has been very helpful
Permalink Reply by Kathy Hooven on September 30, 2010 at 3:38am
Have you checked your property tax bills?

The ones I get from Ritchie County show what they are for, I don't have them in front of me and I am out of town. But if you own just the land or just the mineral rights it is written on the bill. If you own both there is a code for that too. You can call the county property tax office and they should be able to tell you.
Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on September 30, 2010 at 6:49am
Where's Ritchie County?

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