RECEIVED CHECK FROM ULTRA PETROLEUM, NOW TOLD WE DO NOT OWN MINERAL RIGHTS

We own a 4.62 acre plot on Laurel Crest off Shin Hollow road in Gaines. We received a check for a five year lease this past august from ultra petroleum. When I called the ultra rep today to check on the status of any royalites that might be forthcoming, he told me that he was terribly sorry, but that a mistake had been made in mailing checks out to landowners in my area, that, in fact, we did not own mineral rights, that dominion resources had severed the rights to these parcels back in 1937, but that we could keep the check since it was their mistake. Just curious, has anyone else run into this situation. Needless to say we are a bit shell shocked by this revalation. Any and all info would be appreciated

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Frank Walker on October 5, 2010 at 2:00am
Ritchie County is in West Virginia!!
Permalink Reply by Ed MYers on October 7, 2010 at 11:07am
If you are told you don't own your mineral rights ask, who does ? They are taxable. Who is paying the tax on them? If they can't tell you, then you must own them. You have been paying the taxes. In Penn. you will also be told Mineral rights don't cover gas and oil. This is a bunch of crap. Check this all out. Ed barbandedm@aol.com
Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 7, 2010 at 2:28pm
Mineral rights are taxable? So if I lease those rights, is it the O&G company's responsibility to pay a portion of my taxes?? How does one separate out the mineral right tax from the rest of the property tax? I've heard of companies paying C&G rollback taxes and such, but I've never heard of mineral rights being taxable.
Permalink Reply by Ed MYers on October 7, 2010 at 2:40pm
Yes, they are taxable. I bought my mineral rights about 8 years after I bought my land. The taxes were not paid and a notice was put in the newspaper. I am fighting with Anadarko about this at this time. Pa. law says Mineral rights are not gas and oil rights. I say when I bought the surface land then the Gas and oil rights went with the sale. Yes the former owner owned the Mineral. This is a dumb law and I would like to see the state's answer to this. I have written to Garth Evert about this. I am paying a lawyer to fight this stupid law. ED
Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 8, 2010 at 5:37am
Is the tax at the county or the township level?
Permalink Reply by Brian V. on October 9, 2010 at 4:35am
I read a while ago that oil and gas severances need to be specific to oil and gas in PA. If you or anyone has a mineral reservation referenced in your deed chain it must be worded specifically that the oil and gas is reserved to the grantor.

Most counties haven't specifically tax mineral owners separate from the surface. Now that big money is being paid for the minerals and the actual mineral owners are signing leases the counties are finding mineral owners when leases are recorded. Subsequently assessors are creating mineral tax assessments. I you do not own your minerals you should ask for a new assessment on your land IMO. Also, if you do own them I would look into how those minerals are being assessed. They could be raping you.

Old mineral reservations in Tioga Co. go back to the coal days and finding them I imagine is quite a complex process. I have heard recently that back have kept the minerals after foreclosures and even some counties after tax sales. Needless to say the Marcellus has changed everything.
Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 9, 2010 at 5:40am
"Also, if you do own them I would look into how those minerals are being assessed. They could be raping you.

How would you find that out? The assessment in my tax bill only includes land and buildings.
Permalink Reply by Brian V. on October 9, 2010 at 9:08am
Lynn,

I'm not even sure Tioga County has made changes for mineral assessments. I do know that they have started listing landowners that own just the minerals and not the surface in the assessor's office. To be honest I don't know if Tioga is assessing them yet but I know it was talked about. I'd imagine if they have decided to list mineral owners in the assessment office that they are planning to make some sort of tax for them to pay. Now if they are taxing mineral owners for the value of their minerals why wouldn't they tax someone who owned the surface and minerals.

This gets really complicated. Say you only own half the minerals, if you haven't leased or if your minerals currently are being produced. There has to be some formula to regulate how minerals are taxed if in fact they are making an assessment on minerals or plan to. I'd say that currently if you don't have a lease your minerals are worth $0.00 taxable dollars. Again if forced pooling takes effect this would change.
Permalink Reply by Lynn Wigglesworth on October 9, 2010 at 9:21am
Wow; they are finding yet another way to tax the same resource!
Permalink Reply by William Ladd on October 9, 2010 at 10:56am
I wonder if we as taxpayers could find a way to levy a tax on the gas being put out by the county authorities in Wellsboro?
Permalink Reply by Ann Ticopa on October 9, 2010 at 11:01am
The assesed value is supposed to be the fair market value. When a property is sold either unleased or with the lease included, the sale price includes the value of the minerals. The purchaser buys the whole package, so it wouldn't be justified to levy a mineral assessment (tax) in addition to the purchase price (FMV).
Permalink Reply by William Ladd on October 10, 2010 at 3:57am
Two things that I am a little confused about are these, 1. Is gas and oil deposits considered to be minerals in the state of Pennsylvania? 2. When a deed is transferred to another, are the mineral rights normally transfered too unless otherwise stated?

Bill L.
aka Bummy

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