A great deal of good information along with baseless opinion and alot of mis-information, can be had for free here and on many other sites dealing with this subject. Remeber this site is read and monitored by people worldwide, i would hesitate to show my ignorance in the way many people have done here, over the past year, not naming names.
Many of you would be better served if you asked less questions seeking to be handed priceless pearls of information, and better off to sift your own sand and come up with your own answers and conclusions.
ALOV is a good group of people that have done a tremendous service to all people involved in this shale play across several states, and not just to the members of the four or five different groups this past year and a half or so that they have gotten lease deals done, for they, the landowners, for a mere $60 application fee coming from their pocket.
ALOV has not been good with holding our hands and keeping us up to date on the process step by step, but they have delivered, each time the best money deal, AT THE CURRENT TIME, and by hands down the most even handed lease language i have examined from the 28 years off and on that i have been involved with in the O&G business, both as an employee, a student, and having many close friends that have made this business their career. The lease language is not perfect but had ALOV never been established, the chances of any landowner ever being treated fairly, would be very questionable at all, say what you will!
ALOV set the bar and other's rode in on the coat-tail's and then worked from there to try to differentiate themselves and attain better terms.
The Trumbull county group of landowners signing with BP this week, i believe contain both ALOV members, at $60 a head, and the spin-off, for profit group, Buckeye Mineral, at a percentage of their "Bonus Money". The lease is again not the perfect, give-all to the landowner, but do try to come up with a better lease, and get a company to sign it, then come talk to me and show me the paycheck.
The Bonus Money and Percentage of Royalty is less than many incuding myself would like, but to turn it down would have resulted in what next for us, to start over in the process, to wait for a well closer by to be drilled and put into production? This would be ideal if we had the time to wait, if your not one in great need for the money at this time like so many of us are.
I believe it being BP and not Chesapeake, we will be unitized and drilled earlier than some, but we will still be waiting for pipeline, and other infrastructure.
I for one did not just sit by and wait for ALOV to deliver me a miracle. I was actively educating myself more on the subject and marketing my property, by making calls to the different company's and asking around. I was not coming up with anything better.
The leasing prospects had stalled, not because of County Lines and Geology, but over Money, bottom line. The O&G companies were and still are, posturing, its all a big game to them, and a money game. They do monitor this site and the other forums like this, to check our temperatures and guage our desperation for new working capital, meaning CASH and willingness to deal.
The thing about the shale play is this, the paydirt is pretty much there across the right depths, the whole thermal maturity and TOC zone, maybe in different quantity or across the oil, to wet-gas and oil, to mostly dry gas range, but their will be very few truly dry holes, unless a driller really screws up.
The drilling has been done so far pretty much the same way they drill every new play. They drill the first well in an area that shows good promise,then if its good, they drill another nearby and see if they can get the same result, then try to determine the extent of the play, the furthest reaches, then they try to determine the sweet spot's, and fill in and connect the dots with more well's.
The county lines come into play because of local politics, unemployment levels, and other economic factors. They are in the business of spending the least to aquire the leases AND get a free hand with all of the acreage, to do with as they please.
Because of the internet and other resources, we landowners have done a better job educating ourselves on the play, than maybe some other generations had been able to do in the more traditional plays in days past, no discredit intended to them. We worked hard to get the fairest treatment we could get and not have the O&G company's walk away from the negotiating table. HORSE TRADING is an art form, if you can't negotiate from a position of strength, you will most likey get taken.
As always i wish the best of luck and good fortune to all my fellow landowners in this area and others.
This will be a big shot in the arm for our economy but we must hold these company's accountable and remain vigilent that they run a clean operation, we must stand up to them on each and every point, and hold them to the task, for the sake of all and the next generation as well.
Please also keep this in mind, and Mr. Rea reminded us of this fact; THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is the only country in the world that has established itself to allow it's citizens the right's to the riches of the land both above and below their feet on the land they hold.
God Bless this country, its citizens, and the Men and Women who have given so much to make us and keep us free, and protect our interest's around the world.
I, my wife, and most recently, my eldest son, as well as all members of my lineage past and present( to my knowledge) have served this great nation. I know many of you have as well, Thank You for your service.
Also God Bless our Founding Fathers, who had the Vision, the strength, the gut's, to establish such a system of self-government.
Now we need to remeber this at the voting booth, and vote, every one of us without exception or excuse's, to keep this right to all this that we have worked for and our freedom's, which seem to erode more each passing day, because no one wants to make waves, just go along, it's easier. This has to stop, or we may find that we no longer have rights to this new found wealth.
Signing off now, Respectfully, Jim
As always, Jim, you approach this whole thing with calmness and reason! Congrats to you and your family!
Hi Edward, Hope all is going well. I read in another thread that the group you were putting together has some activity, thats great news, good luck with everything.
I had meant the above to be my farewell, as i have a huge backlog of farmwork to get to now that i have leased my property with BP, and its kind of off my mind a little bit.
I just keep coming back, this site and all of you good people just kinda grew on me and i keep logging in late at night after my work is done and i have the kids off my computer, to see the latest news and what the rumor mill has churned out, haha.
Yes. The Found Fathers meant for us to OWN our land not hold it. The first deeds alocated to property owners were called allodial deeds. With that type of deed, nobody could take your land--not even the government--to pay off a debt unless you specifically mortgaged it. Less than a handful of States continue to honor allodial deed. Ohio is not one of them. As such, we are technically property holder (not owners) and the State and the Federal government can take away our land and our minerals anytime. This is beyond precarious because there are many people who do not hold land going to the polls voting for legislation that whittles away the land owners assets. For example, property taxes have been ruled unconstitutional by the Ohio Supreme Court and yet they persist. I ish land groups,like ALOV lobbied lawmakers to protect this fundamental right to OWN land and not just hold it.
Hi Tanya, just got a freed up enough to reply, better late than never right.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention, i seem to remember reading this subject matter many years back but had forgotten the detail's. The original people here believed in a manner, the land held them and gave them life. They did not "own" the land. All i know is this, i have paid very dearly for my patch of soil, in greenback's, sweat, and blood, and i will never have anything taken from me or be bent to the will of another, so long as i live. The fruit's of my labor will not be redistributed or unfaily taxed. See the link to an "Agenda 21" powerpoint below, that should be a huge wake up call to everyone here. Thank's again for all your input.
You are wrong on all counts: You will have to do some research on "allodial deeds." My parents have an old law book that explains the early public surrender of those deeds and what that loss has entailed. If you are indeed a property owner--particularly in Ohio--property taxes were ruled unconstitutional by our State Supreme Court--yet the tax remains unlawfully imposed. Lastly, that Agenda 21 is horrific. The nations beyond our borders have all the resources to create a nation like ours--but the UN and our leaders are determined to enslave Americans to support the world. Those countries will never achieve or maintain freedom if they do not fight to earn it themselces.
Jim, yours is a very fair assessment. Thanks for bringing balance. I agree that ALOV got an attractive deal with BP... maybe not "phenomenal", but far better than any of us could ever have hoped to negotiate on our own. The fact that the driller is BP (with all its acreage concentrated here in Trumbull) is a significant advantage for us vs. those leased with CHK (not that I'm anti-CHK). And it's important to note that BP wouldn't have come without ALOV's huge acreage total. ALOV has been a blessing to us all, and hopefully a permanent game-changer in the way leasing progresses into the future. Generations of landowners to come (including my own kids) will owe a great debt to Mr. Bob Rea.
I certainly echo your encouragement for us to defend our rights lest we watch them evaporate before our very eyes. There is a strong push in our country for citizens to increasingly relinquish their property rights to the "state"... philosophies that were unthinkable and "un-American" even 10 to 15 years ago are now being embraced. I'm greatly concerned for our kids' generation.
For anyone who considers themselves to be a patriot, take a moment to educate yourself with the following video. It is really an eye-opener concerning how far we've come!
Depolarized farmer, Thanks for the kind word's, i dont speak up often but when i do, i often dont know when to shut up, lol. I have seen this Agenda 21 for several years now, this presentation is very well done and hard to dispute. More of us need to become aware because we are going to be the most affected as landowners and more so as landowners with mineral wealth. We will now have large targets on our backs from here on out.
We must put questions to our elected officials from the dog warden on up so to speak, and see where they really stand on this and make them aware that we are not having any of it, and we need to be firm and draw the line in the sand.
Thanks for posting this.
Jim, AMEN and thank you, well said.
Not to be political, but I fear that Gov. Kasich has abandoned his own principles with his proposed 4% severance tax. Directly or indirectly, it is the landowner who will bear this new tax every time O&G companies deduct it from the landowner's royalty. A landowner's minerals belong to the land-owner, not the state. The state should not have the right to take away a percentage our our assets and give them to someone else. To be blunt, that is simply wealth redistribution.
At a 15% royalty, a decent Utica well can easily net royalties of $15,000 per acre. If I happened to own 100 acres of land, my 4% severance tax on $1.5M in royalties would amount to $60,000 (in addition to $576,000 in federal & state income tax estimated at 40%). Why should the State have the right to take another $60,000 out of my pocket, and then dole it out as a fraction of a penny to each of Ohio's millions of taxpayers? My burden results in a meaningless benefit which won't convince any Ohioan to start a business or not move to Florida. Landowners need to do the math... even a homeowner with a 1-acre lot is going to pay $600 in severance tax, and in return get a meaningless tax break.
Gov. Kasich thinks that he hatched a "populist" plan... who wouldn't like a tax cut? But this is unfair and unconstitutional --- being financed out of the pockets of landowners who are already going to be paying more than 40% in federal and state income taxes on their royalties, not to mention property taxes, CAT taxes, etc. I would rather give that same amount of money to my local school district where it can make a difference and will benefit my own community.
Let's face it... the state is already going to be receiving a huge windfall of increased income tax revenue from all of the taxpaying landowners who are receiving bonus payments and royalty income. Why can't the state simply give some of that money back? Why do they need to mandate a new additional 4% tax for distribution to the masses? It's unnecessary, and it's designed to prevent the state from giving back one dime of its ballooning revenue.
Here's a even better idea... and if you agree, please call the govenor's office as well as your state representatives. The State of Ohio owns nearly 600,000 acres of public land in Ohio. This land belongs to the tax-paying citizens --- we are the owners, and the State is merely the caretaker. Let's have the State lease out portoins of this public land where practical, and then use all bonus payments and royalties to give a dollar-for-dollar tax break to the citizens of Ohio. This is the fair and principled approach, and would result in a much larger potential tax cut for the people given the state's massive land holdings. Let the public benefit financially from the public's own land. Don't steal it from the private landowner's pocket !
This severance tax is double taxing the resources.
My sentiments exactly Garfield. The ORC and the Ohip Supreme Court says it is unlawful to tx only segments of the population--yet it continues-particularly with unlawful property taxes and now this. Property owners are going to have to take a stand because law makers are making decisions that do not represent the interest of property owners.