Road damage in Greene County

I was driving with a friend on route 221 through Greene County on Sunday to go bicycling on the Greene River trail near Rices Landing, and we found ourselves behind a brine water / residual waste truck -- presumably full of frack waste -- between Dunn Station and Ruff Creek.

Three problems:

1. The truck had no license plate!  The side of the truck said Curry Supply.

2. The truck often took up most of the road, creating a hazard for oncoming traffic.

3. There was severe road damage on route 221, perhaps from these wide, heavy frack trucks.  When I biked this road about two years ago, the edges of this road were not crumbling like this.  Damaged roads can cause a) crashes for bicyclists or motorcyclists, b) damage to car tires and suspensions, and c) additional safety problems as cars & trucks swerve to avoid holes in the road.

See photos:

https://picasaweb.google.com/pheckbert/FrackingGreeneCounty#

I'd like to visit Greene County again to go bicycling on its (formerly) nice roads but these safety issues make me think twice.  The gas industry should pay for their share of this road damage, since this appears to be so far beyond normal road wear.

 

-Paul

Pittsburgh

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Permalink Reply by Daniel Rupert on June 11, 2011 at 1:02pm
Are you serious? Pennsylvania sells out to the gas industry? I think you meant the gas industry bails out Pennsylvania!!! Do you propose ignoring the mind boggling energy resources under our lands? I think you fell off your bike one time too many! I think you may want to start wearing a helmet! And shame on those individuals for taking higher paying jobs in the gas industry...what were they thinking? Chevron is planning a BILLION DOLLAR plant...just the beginning! There is money being pumped into this states economy like never before! It's here now...and will be bigger tomorrow!!!
Permalink Reply by matthew h mcsparren on June 11, 2011 at 2:02pm
Paul: Please tell me what part of Pa you live in?
Permalink Reply by redbank on June 11, 2011 at 3:33pm

I'll throw my 2 cents in here, and try to stay diplomatic and professional. A few points for the anti's...I think if you were living and working out here "in it", your view may be different. You see, this is so much more than a disturbance to your pretty little pony farm. If you get around much like I do in a 7 or so county area where this is really getting big, you would see the economic impact. Everything is impacted. Do you anti's have family or friends in the O&G field? or other businesses that deal directly with O&G? I do, and it would take me awhile to count them. (I'm talking about some guys with GED's not fancy pants city people with big time educations and white collar jobs.) These guys are making a good living, their kids are way better off (maybe they'll actually get to college), and they can afford a vacation now (how many vacations and places have you been?) They can afford to go out to eat and lay down a nice tip now (obviously helping the waitress, and the trickle-down continues) If your brother-in-law, or nephew, or son, or grandson or whatever had one of these jobs and was affected so greatly would it help not be so anti? What if it was more than just one of them.

There is such a trickle down with all of this. You don't read about in the TIME article, or the news don't/WON'T tell you on TV. I work for the railroad, and we've built new sidings and loading facilities for sand and pipe in MANY locations. (when is the last time you heard of railroad tracks actually being built? and not being tore out for guess what... a bike trail). We're hiring, we're working overtime,(I got more money to spend, and I got more taxes to pay) we're hiring out to contractors, we need more locomotives, somebody is building them, and they are hiring. Fleets of trucks are being bought at local shops, mechanics are servicing them, I actually know of a guy that is making a killing with a mobile pressure washer spraying all those rigs and trucks on site! Small excavation outfits are booming, more dozers are bought, more mechanics needed. All those supply houses that have the plastic sheeting and the silt fence can't keep up with all the business. The convenience stores are packed. Hotels are full and new ones are actually being built basically because of this. (And the people that are getting forced from their rentals are probably on relief anyhow, they'll probably get a raise or a new bonus in their mailbox money (probably a new special line item "Magic Marcellus Money")) Truckers are able to get jobs closer to home and make as good of money here as to be on the road away for days/weeks at a time.

 

 

DO I NEED TO GO ON???? HOW FREAKING HARD IS IT????

I hope my point is made, because I can keep going if you like.

 

SERIOUSLY............

 

Take a minute.... a little bit more...... put this in your mind, use that great big left brain of yours, and put it together. This means allot, and it IS going to last a LONG time.

People that are "out of touch", although intelligent, seem to always be anti, but somehow are always the "enlightened ones", you people cause me much heartburn. Come... walk in these/our peoples shoes, get your hands dirty, take that big SUV off road to a gas well site (oh wait, the road to the gas well is better than the PENNDot maintained road I live on), and act out that 4 wheeling fantasy you had when you bought it.

Sorry, I'm ranting now.

 

I have negotiated and signed up for a well that is on my neighbors farm and comes under mine, we are the only properties involved. The site is built, and the drill is here. To me, it is more than a shock as to how neat and clean this production is, and how professional the guys are at this particular site.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jim Walters on June 12, 2011 at 2:56am

When I first heard of all this I was livid . . . seven years ago I retired from building, sold our lake front home for a whopping sum and bought this land we are currently on. We built a home, a guest cabin and various out buildings ourselves and settled in for a few years of peace and quiet.

 

So you see, thats a lot of your opposition, that's me. I'm not a city slicker or a local yokel . . . I am a man who has had a dream shattered by this oil/gas boom and I am pissed off. This isn't a personal vendetta like some of you seem to believe. . .  .so

 

I believe in order to fight a man successfully, you must know him . . . his fears . . . his beliefs . . . all that stuff. I came here to learn about you guys. . . . the gas/oil companies I feel I already know. . . . .

 

My opinion . . . your decent people. I don't want to fight you, but I sure as hell don't want to join you. So I am standing down. The blog I started will die and I shall disappear back into the cyber fog. 

 

Funny thing is . . . I really care what happens to you guys and your land far more than how much money you can make on this deal . . . but in time this will all play out and you just may end up on top. . . .. .  but in my opinion you ARE bucking the odds. . . . . good luck . . . . 

Permalink Reply by Daniel Rupert on June 12, 2011 at 3:17am
 @ Jim...We have property in Westmoreland County (51 years) and Elk County (family owned for 76 years). We also like clean air and water. I appreciate your opinion...I just happen to have a different one. The energy dynamics in this world today, dictate that this gas is, and will continue to be produced in record volumes.Time will tell...you are 100% correct! We are close to signing a lease in Elk County (166 Acres)and have no intention on signing in Westmoreland County (1 Acre). I wish you all the luck in the world. I also hope we can treat each other respectfully...I'am a passionate person and sometimes get my dander up...if I have offended anybody I'am truely sorry. Take care and may the wind be at your back always!
Permalink Reply by Tom on June 12, 2011 at 3:29am

What happened to the original Disscussion here?

It was originally about a dorky looking city guy that wants to ride his bicycle on country back roads. But he instead finds that there are people who work for a living in the country side when he wants to ride his bicycle. He finds that a new industry,  that some have compared to the Gold Rush in 1849  means that trucks now drive on the same roads he wants to ride his bicycle on.

He lives in the city with many fine paved roads, and there are many Rails to Trails available to ride on too. But he wants everyone to stop the biggest economic boom to this area so he can ride his bicycle on our country roads and look at our pretty trees, fields, creeks and bridges.

Lets all give this man a break and forget the economic benefits that are at our doors.  As a matter of fact, I might buy a bicycle and bring it to the city cul de sac and ride around a bit....

 

Permalink Reply by Herbert G. Flavell on June 12, 2011 at 3:48am
I hope this works. This video is taken of a well that is about 2 miles from our home. The derrick is still up and when its gone, I intend to take another video of the Christmas tree that remains. The video is not perfect because it was taken with a $39 camera by my son. I don't text and drive nor do I video and drive.
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Permalink Reply by craig on June 12, 2011 at 4:28am

To Jim Walters: If you sold your previous place for a "whopping sum" then you should have been looking forward and bought a lot more land than what you did to serve as a buffer between you and the rest of the world. I'm not trying to be smart in saying this, but  maybe you should sell your place with the mineral rights included...take the even bigger "whopping sum" you will recieve and buy a very large parcel to build your dream on?  I hate to see dreams shattered. Not much more can be said.

 

The few things that really gets 'my feathers ruffled' about this whole anti-drilling issue are:

1) When our family moved to the rural area of our county in the '60s it was just that...rural country folk....farmers and such. 10 years later a large farm near ours was sold and over 50 houses were built. Soon we had 'city' folk clamoring for municipal water, street lights, police patrols 24/7....all the things they were used to in suburbia. This also includes just about everyone of these folks owning a dog or two that they felt they could let run free.

The result: Our taxes went up and up. The dogs would run down our sheep or calves and kill them or they would find us and chase us when we were horse back riding.  The traffic on our dirt road went sky high, with the dust and wear and tear that goes along with it. The wildlife was changed for ever.  The peace and quiet we enjoyed was somewhat disturbed. Our area was partially transformed from what it used to be. However, We endured through it all. We (nor anyone else) didn't have a hissy fit and try to get the housing stopped. We adapted. We still live here, we still enjoy living here. Yes things have changed, that is life. I wonder what some of these land owners would do if a housing complex was being built next door instead of a drilling pad?  I can hear it now! Or how about someone building a target range nearby? These folks need to wake the heck up to reality.

2) We have paid tens of thousands of dollars in taxes over the years on our properties that disproportionately served the whims of the suburbanites. We deserve to use our property as legally seen fit. If I want to sign a gas lease then i'll sign one. Actually, I signed a non-drilling lease....the bonus was much less, but who cares.

3) I have never met anyone locally who wants to 'rape' the land for profit. They want it done right is all.

I could go on and on, but you get the drift......

I am not going to post on this thread again..it is going no where and is achieving nothing constructive.

Let us agree to disagree on some things.

I live here, I know first hand how drilling is affecting our area, and I am happy so far. 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on June 12, 2011 at 5:33am
Tom;  I want to ride  my bike around Pittsburgh and enjoy the architecture, gawk at the beautiful women, and admire the rivers.  Think we could pass a law stopping all those noisy, air-polluting, road-hogging buses, trucks, and cars from using the streets?  After all they are violating my rights to enjoy myself, denying me clean air,  and endangering my life.
Permalink Reply by Daniel Rupert on June 12, 2011 at 7:07am

Amen Jim!

 

Permalink Reply by Kerry parslow on June 12, 2011 at 7:30am

I agree, the discussion is going nowhere.  I just get really annoyed by people's gullibiity and refusal to consider all the potential drawbacks and realistic statistics, perhaps blinded by the cash waved under their noses. 

 

The "flag-waving" rants about how the Marcellus is going to somehow "solve" our energy needs are particularly stupid.  The BEST and most optimistic assessments of the TOTAL recoverable volume of the gas in the entire Marcellus play is 50 trillion cubic feet (tcf).  Annual natural gas consumption in the US is over 20 tcf which accounts for only 23.5% of our overall energy consumption.  So if the entire energy supply of the US was natural gas it would have to be about 85 tcf.  By the way, these statistics are from the industry itself.  Check them out yourself.


So, let's take the one Marcellus booster's contention that the play will provide us with "100 years of energy".  If we mine it to last 100 years we could only pull out half a trillion cubic feet per year (50 divided by 100, right?)  That volume, 0.5 tcf (or 500 billion cubic feet) amounts to around half of a percent of the US energy consumption right now.  HALF A PERCENT people.  It would not even cover half of Pennsylvania's energy consumption for a year. 

 

Meanwhile, such simple lifestyle changes as having every household replace 25% of their incandescent lightbulbs with low wattage PLs OR setting their thermostats 3 degrees lower OR properly insulating and caulking their homes would save one percent, or twice as much energy as all the Marcellus gas would contribute.  And wind-generated power, which currently provides less than 1% of PA's power, is said to have the potential to provide 30% of it.

 

If we were able to suck the entire Marcellus play dry all at once it would only supply the US natural gas supply (reminder -- less than a quarter of our energy needs) for 2.4 years at best estimates or about 1 year at the more conservative estimates. 

 

Bottom line:  the ENTIRE volume of gas in the Marcellus would only run US power plants for about 3 to 6 months.  And then it would all be gone. Keep that in perspective when you get all starry-eyed about this "bonanza."  They want to mine it because they can make a profit on it while it's still cheap, that's all.  It won't change anything, won't reduce our energy prices or dependence on foreign sources.  If you choose to profit personally from it in the short term, no one can stop you.  But don't get on your high horse or delude yourself about how you're doing anything for the greater good.

 

Coal strip mining enriched a small bunch of people and temporarily brought a modest prosperity to a few regions.  Look at those regions now, full of ruined useless land, contaminated streams, closed businesses, families on public assistance and individuals on disability from black lung and other maladies.  Guess we don't learn, do we?

 

So, rant all you want, but at least get your statistics (and history) straight.

 

I'm out of here.  It's been grand.

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on June 12, 2011 at 8:40am

Wrongo...bucko!!  From Wikikpedia  <I>In 2008, Terry Engelder, a Pennsylvania State University geosciences professor called his estimate of 4,800 km3 (1.7×1014 cu ft) (170 TCF) conservative.[119] In November 2008, based on drilling results, Engelder increased his estimate of the amount of natural gas in the Marcellus to 363 TCF of recoverable resource, which would be enough to supply U.S. consumption for at least fourteen years.[122] That estimate assumed some acreage in the Marcellus would not be gas bearing. If the entire formation did contain gas, Engelder said the formation could contain 4,359 TCF. Assuming a 30% recovery rate, this would lead to a 1,307 TCF. </I> 

 

And most people are saying that the Utica is at least as bog as the Marcellus and probably double that.  If true, that would bring it to 3,921 trillion cubic feet of recoverable gas.  And since technology will improve and higher gas prices 50 years from now will make it more profitable to extract even the last amount, the reserves are much higher. And there are sevral more layers of gas-bearing strata.

 

I say they will be here for the rest of our lives...get used to it.

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