Compressed Natural Gas for vehicles

Does anyone know if these gas companies and subcontractors use any compressed natural gas vehicles or do they just fill up with foreign diesel fuel?  US has Boon Pickens and corporations asking for governmental support and funding for CNG, one has to ask where the leadership is on this topic.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony T on January 26, 2012 at 10:22am

THe fuel cost when broken down to cost per mile driven is extremely better then normal gasoline, not to mention the benefits of being free of foreign oil, and the emissions are a lot safer for the environment.  As i mentioned before, its a GREAT idea, it just takes a while to change something that has been the "norm" for years.  The gas just has to be more readily available at gas stations ect, and safer systems in the event of a catastrophic wreck etc.  I firmly believe the pros outweigh the cons in this subject.  Another problem is the BIG oil companies will not be to pleased to miss out on 3-4 dollar per gallon gas profits due to the switch to CNG.

Permalink Reply by Guy Smith on January 26, 2012 at 9:24am

Dan,  Your right the Honda Civic GX is now available.  38 mpg equivalent  @ $2.  Powered by NG only!!! You (the consumer) wouldnt know it with all the Hype over the Volt and other Hybyrds.  I am currently looking into getting one.  Ford, GM and Chysler need to get with the program.   If everyone that has an interest in the future of NG and not being dependant on forgien Oil would go out and buy one of these cars maybe  Detroit would take notice.  There are not NG Stations every where, but they are out there.  There is one 5 miles from my office and I didnt know it existed until this week.

Permalink Reply by Anthony T on January 26, 2012 at 10:24am

and as i explained before, they do offer kits that you can compress your house gas to fill your CNG tank up in your car, the only fall-back is the time it takes.  I believe as long as more and more stations get put in, the more cars will come STOCK with CNG/Gasoline hybrid cars.   its the way of the future my friends and we are right in the middle of it

Permalink Reply by familyman on January 26, 2012 at 11:31am

just a small update, I have been paying attention to your conversations. First, the revolution has started, and my company is one of the small businesses that are leading the charge. We offer conversions for light and medium duty vehicles, and ours are EPA and CARB certified. Unfortunately there are a few businesses installing illegal systems, and that will only hurt the industry. I am not even saying the systems are bad, but they are illegal...and if you are ignorant enough to install illegal systems in your business, who knows what else you will do. But, there are legal systems, and you can buy them directly from the OEM. By the way, the OEM hires the upfitter to install the system then sells it and warrants it, but charges a whole bunch more.

It is safe, you need to use s/s lines for high pressure, you need to use legal tanks, you need to install the PRD in the correct locations. By the way it is not just transit busses that put the tanks on top, it is an option for vans, certain suvs and of course pickups put them in the bed, and secured and protected from sunlight. Once you are past the regulator you can use s/s or based on manufacturer approval the correct flex line. The systems need to be inspected, they need to be properly installed, and properly maintained, with proper materials. I have seen people put the filler in the plastic bumper. Bad move. I have seen people secure the tanks with binder straps. This is why Lincoln and other companies want to make sure they are selling them to quality installers. Buying on ebay leads into a whole lot of problems. Thats a shame cause i like to save money too, but safety is more important. Tanks have expiration dates that can not be extended, and they need to be inspected every 3 years or 36,000 miles. I have seen the damage on the tanks and i have seen the pictures of the events. Lets do it right, save money help the environment stabilize the price of natural gas and gain independence from the middle east.A

IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING A CNG CONVERSION PLEASE PLEASE ASK THE COMPANY IF ITS EPA/CARB CERTIFIED. If they tell you it doesnt  have to be stay away and call the enforcement division of EPA or DEP, these people hurt the industry. Oh and on a final note, it is true that some small home units take all nite to fill your car, hence the name slow fill, but some of my small time fill units do alot more than 1GGE, they do 6-9GGe/hr, and of course my bigger systems do GGE by the minute.

Permalink Reply by Daniel Rupert on January 26, 2012 at 11:49am

familyman...Thanks for sharing and good for you...I hope your business goes through the roof!!! Our country will benefit from your companies efforts and sucesses...These are the types of businesses that we need...we have the supply of NG...let's keep creating the demand!(i.e. CNG relacing coal fired power plants, cracker plants, CNG as the transportation fuel for the trucking industry, infrastructure for LNG exporting,etc.,etc.)  It just makes too much SENSE and we would be FOOLISH not to take advantage of our blessings!!!

Permalink Reply by Sam Moore on February 27, 2012 at 6:10am

How much does the epa/carb certified add to the cost of the conversion?

Permalink Reply by familyman on February 27, 2012 at 9:29am

thats pretty easy. You cant convert without being either EPA or CARB approved based on the state. There are people selling systems, and they will try to tell you that the EPA doesnt govern it, but i can give you the code of federal regulations, and state specific regulations. So the short answer is there is no additional cost to having an EPA certified conversion because that is the law, no matter what you hear. Now one of my vendors sells a kit that can be certified EPA and for an additional fee to comply with a state that requires CARB approval for the difference in money between EPA and CARB. Tell me what vehicle you have, the model the engine and year, and what state you are registered in, and i can help you out. Contact me at www.cngonesource.com Thank you

Permalink Reply by Sam Moore on February 27, 2012 at 10:47am

Quote "You cant convert without being either EPA or CARB approved based on the state."

HMMM! I'm sure I've seen it done.

I was just bringing it up to further the discussion.  During my research before I bought my first cng car I was looking to convert over my Chevy truck and found that the cost for a top of line "illegal" conversion ran $6,000 to $6,500 and the EPA certified was about double.  The reason I was given was that all the fees the shop had to pay to the EPA and the mountains of paperwork needed.  I read that each model and each year was charged a separate fee.  So, if you where going to do Chevy trucks with 6.0 liter motor and you where going to do 2002 thru 2009 model years and this motor was available in the 1500, 2500 and 3500 trucks the shop owner wouldn't have to pay the $10,000 fee but would have to pay $270,000 fee. 3 different models 9 different years so 3 X 9 X $10,000 ( now before there are 20 responses telling me that this motor wasn't available on this model on this year for my example lets just pretend they where.)  All of these extra fees have to be passed on to the consumer, a business has to make money to stay in business.

I would think it would be much more cost effective to certify the shop and the mechanic and then let them do conversions on all makes and models.  Thus lowering the cost to the consumer and getting more people on board with cng.

I gave up and bought dual fuel factory Cavalier used off ebay.

Permalink Reply by familyman on February 27, 2012 at 11:01am

Dont be mad at the messenger. My company is actively pursuing modification of the rules. In fact at the end of March, we will be in that city none of us like, but at least it will be during the cherry blossom festival. I dont like one bit that the procedure is so expensive, the good news is that it lightened up some in April 2011, and if we can keep working away at it, the system would be much improved. I dont agree with certification of the shop because they merely would have to change their products and the emissions could be different. I advocate that we perform pre conversion air emissions,and compared against post emissions. And once a year, the vehicle receives an air emissions test, and if its still good, keep the car on the road, but also as data builds up, the government should relax the standards because it is proven. I do see some terrible things done by shops too. Tying the tanks down with binders, people buying expired tanks off ebay. People not getting the fuel system inspected after a car crash. Running lines in bad areas and generallly failing to comply with DOT and NFPA 52 as well. The technicians should be educated and qualified. I am proud to tell you that the companies that i deal with require solid training, and that is the best thing for the industry.

So, even though you baited me, i hope the education is worth it, i love to talk about this subject, we are highly trained and will only do legal systems. By the way, there are now multiple standards that allow additional vehicles to have systems, but you cant just throw any system on a vehicle, it still must be legal

Have a great day!

Permalink Reply by Sam Moore on February 28, 2012 at 3:59am

Sounds like we are on the same page.  The governments involvement should be limited to having a safe, properly installed and clean running car.

One more quick question.  How poorly would a system need to be installed to make it run dirtier on CNG than gas.

Permalink Reply by familyman on February 28, 2012 at 10:21am

i dont know, we use emissions machine to track our work. I have been told by one manufacturer, that i like but do not use because it is not EPA certified that his systems for diesel are dirtier than diesel alone, i dont see how but who would know better than him. I can tell you that a couple of important improvements and efficiencies are the fuel injection systems and that my manufacturers actually are approved by the OEM and EPA or CARB to modify the computers, so air fuel ratios, even at altitude, and advanced timing is accounted for by these systems.

Permalink Reply by Schnoozie on February 28, 2012 at 4:58am

This is the only thread on here worth reading. Thank you.

How about a Facility Tour!

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