Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by brat on January 9, 2013 at 6:31am

Thanks Jack, sounds like sound advice so far.  I will see what they have to say, and report back.  By the way, do you have any idea how big of a company Atlas Energy is?

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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 9, 2013 at 6:44am

Atlas were partially bought out a couple years ago by Chevron (the second largest O&G Corporation in the U.S.).

Atlas were split up ... Chevron bought the Upstream (Exploration and Production); Chevron still operates the Atlas interests under the Atlas name.

The Midstream was spun off as a Master Limited Partnership (Atlas Energy L.P.); ATLS is their NYSE stock symbol.

 

Whichever of these two you will need to be should not much matter: Chevron is huge, Atlas Energy L.P. are big (2 Billion Dollars Market Capitalization) - they both have deep pockets.

 

JS

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 9, 2013 at 6:33am

One additional comment, I would expect Atlas to reimburse you for any and all reasonable legal expenses that you might incur.

 

JS

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Permalink Reply by brat on January 9, 2013 at 7:05am

Much thanks Jack, will report on the report findings.  Hey maybe I can get Chevron to lease the deep rights on the property the tresspassing gas line is on!

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Permalink Reply by Matt G. on January 11, 2013 at 4:41am

Instead of blaming oil and gas companies for everything, don't you think you should take some responsibility for having no idea of where your property lines were for the last 30 years? Seems to me that should be one of those basic responsibilities of both a landowner and an oil and gas company. As soon as there is big money involved, everyone wants to play the victim card.

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Permalink Reply by brat on January 11, 2013 at 6:14am

Matt G.-- ---some idea of where property lines are? (yes I did), basic responsibility, maybe yes.....legally required? no,.....tresspass,  bull doze a path, destroy trees, bury a gas line with no ROW?...legally required, YES.

So what if I happened to catch this transgression the day after it was committed?  Does that make it any less justified?  And, just how do you know there is big money involved?

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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 11, 2013 at 6:43am

Tad,

I do not know about your property, but the deed for a property I own in PA is defined by Metes & Bounds.

This deed from 1802 reads something like: "From the large Black Oak tree, N 30°15' W for 212 rods to a standing stone near Fox Lane", etc.

There are currently loads of trees on the property, but none are Black Oak (lots of Red Oak and some White Oak and Chestnut Oak).

And Fox Lane is now a wide paved road (with a different name); a grader likely took out that standing stone a long time ago.

And to compund matters, the individual who did much of  the surveying in the area in the 1940's had a drinking problem, and many of the existing survey corner markers have been found to be located in the wrong spot.

Without the significant expense of a survey (and a modern survey at that) many boundaries for Farm Land are understood to be "near that line of trees on the other side of that far field".

It was the responsibility of the O&G Compant to survey and assure that they located their pipeline as and where it should have been.

 

All IMHO,

                 JS

 

 

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Permalink Reply by brat on January 11, 2013 at 7:12am

Jack,  Must have been a lot of black oaks back then.  My deed also states the corner (right next to the gas tresspass  line) "being in the middle of a black oak stump"!  This property had not been surveyed since the early 1800's, maybe at the time of land grants, and had not changed in boundarys since then....ergo, no survey was required.

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Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on January 11, 2013 at 7:59am

RE: "Must have been a lot of black oaks back then.  My deed also states the corner (right next to the gas tresspass line) "being in the middle of a black oak stump"!"

Perhaps "Johnny Appleseed" had an evil twin who went about cutting down all the Black Oak trees; just to screw up the location of property corners.

 

JS

Permalink Reply by Matt G. on January 11, 2013 at 7:30am

It is the responsibility of the O&G company to survey before something like that, 30 years ago I'm not so sure about. If you read your deed and couldn't find evidence of property corners or lines, why not take it upon yourself to fix the situation...i mean it is your property. If you were so dead set against them not crossing your property 30 years ago, why wouldn't you have been sure of where your property lines where then to make sure they weren't on you. It is just plain ridiculous to think they owe you for trespassing for 30 years. Should they give you a fair price for a ROW if they keep it or damages if they remove it....yes of course. I also find it laughable that you think that they purposely and knowingly put this on your property 30 years ago after you didn't want to sign a ROW. Mistakes are made in life, everyone needs to take responsibility for their actions, or in-actions, and remedy the situation. 

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Permalink Reply by Roger Pyle on February 7, 2013 at 5:26am

I have 100 acres in SW PA that I purchased from an aunt twenty years ago.  In 1977, UGI installed a pipeline across the middle of the property. The signs along the road show a number that is no longer in service.  How can I find out who currently owns the pipeline, if it is even in use, and if it is, as a landowner should I receive anything for the gas flowing through it?  

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Permalink Reply by 0llbnp780fs53 on February 6, 2013 at 4:34am

Sorry about the late reply to this, but if the O&G company has been openly using that ROW for the last 30 years without a defined ROW agreement... Is it possible that they are in a position to claim ownership of the ground through adverse action (squatting).  If they've kept the ROW open and you've done nothing to prevent their use or better define the relationship (because you didn't even think the ground was yours), that could be the basis for them claiming the ground as their own.  I think in Ohio that only required 20 years of open and obvious use that the owner has been aware of and done nothing to stop.

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