Drilling Using NO WATER !!!

Why are we fighting the wrong battle? Instead of Fighting to Allow Hydrofracing using WATER, we could be pooling our resources to REQUIRE Hydrofracing to USE "Liquified Petroleum" ..

http://ww.gasfrac.com, a Toronto based firm, developed a technology 4 years ago to use essentially "Propane"  as the FRACING fluid..

1. NO Water exposure

2. NO Pollution

3. doubles production on all wells

4. NO cleanup after

5. Half the ware and tear on the roads

6. over 300 Wells currently in production out in the midwest

7. you undercut any arguement from environmental groups

 

Sadly, almost no one is talking about this

JM

 

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0l1a6laz7smpfPermalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on January 12, 2011 at 1:19pm

thanks Jean....it is kind of like reading the Bible...everyone has an independant study (if they study) and some have different opinions, even in groups...yet the end result is the same, a decision of which way to go towards the goal is entirely up to each person....and yet they still squabble sometimes with one another.   So to come to the table of the O & G business and tell them newer innovative ways...or even more ways that they can respect one another....not all want to do new research (or they don't have time to) and at the same time they are trying to reach a goal to produce an end result that they may profit thereby and some do have the right way and the expertise though there are new ways being tried......that is why I say it is sometimes like reading a Bible and trying to reach GOD with others trying to tell you do this or do that.

Always remember in all your efforts to attain peace and bring forth new ideas that there was two men (Galileo and Bruno)  that stood against the worldly view (the world at that time) and told them that the earth was not flat....and they were mocked but they were right. (it was Copernius that actually was the work they started with).

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 12, 2011 at 1:27pm
exactly... but in our case, this is much more cut and dried than the Bible. The Bible is meant to bring out individual thoughts and obseration and hoefully better actions. TO use Water or not is very black and white, and if one is safer vs the other, the least we can do is listen , evaluate and verify both claims..  through concensus vs being derided or dictated to!!
0l1a6laz7smpfPermalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on January 12, 2011 at 1:33pm

Has there been any cases presented of any problems with the propane (that is liquid petro)  in a flammable situation?  I went online looking and didn't see any...but didn't look that long.

I tell you I am so new at learning of all of this that I am also concerned about the safety of using natural gas instead of gasoline in the cars....guess I am not ready to research that yet.

Tell me does the use of propane for fracking require that the O &n G invest in different types of transport vehicles than what they have with using water?

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 12, 2011 at 1:52pm

Please keep in mind, we are dealing with GAS ;-[) it's all flammable!!! but in keeping with your legitimate concern, read the attached document. 

I can send you a great deal of info , some even contradictory ;-) but I cannot tell you what to think (nor would I) . It took me the better part of 2 years now to read and learn Geology, drilling, Fraking as well as contacting land owners in Texas, Lousiana, Wyoming, and Canada. And after all that, I can recomend to you one thing for sure, NEVER sign anything without a LAWYER, and if possible become part of a coalition, where you are not facing these companies alone..

The claims being made identify new more secure equipment, and differant transport vehicls but only at the beginning fir the frac, then all traffic stops

Attachments:
0l1a6laz7smpfPermalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on January 12, 2011 at 2:24pm

Oh...I appreciate the attachment.   I just read a bit of it ...will save it for later to read more thoroughly.

 

sounds like you have a burden (perhaps from above) to get involved in all that research in that area...   I have learned over time to accept that GOD (whether you know Him or not) is quite capable of giving out burdens which eventually lead to talents and expertise....therefore I have learned to admire when some have a burden to research even though I might not be that interested in what they are sharing.   I guess that is what some said of Edison and Tesla when they first started out with their ideas.  Yet when we come to the table to share our ideas and knowledge that is when we discover that sometimes we are wrong or going the wrong or right direction...so these forums are very helpful and what is most helpful is the willingness to accept one another's opinions/research ideas..

 

I wish someone would tell me if using the liquid petroleum (propane) route would be considered as an enhancement?   (as that would affect some clauses in the leases called 'market enhancement' and also affect gross/net royalties if it is considered an enhancement.

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 12, 2011 at 2:43pm

once again, I cannot claim that, but It is very clear that GASFRAC does claim it to be a significant enhancement to actual Production totals.. at least a 35% increase, so what becomes more critical from a land owner perspective is Royalty percentage. If GASFRAC is correct and production is 35% higher in  the same timeframe as a Water frac, we may also be seeing a shorter lifespan in the Fracjob. So instead of a 2 year lifespan , it could be 18 months.. and then a diminished return..

so the differnce between say 20% royalty and a 21% royalty can be very significant.

then again, we assume that the fracjob is simply more efficient (which is the claim) and duration is the same..

either way , Royalty % is a major concern..as far as I can see

0l1a6laz7smpfPermalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on January 12, 2011 at 2:51pm

take a look at this about 'enhancement'...the oil company used this as a way to get the Lessor to pay for expenses even though they told the Lessor that there would be NO deductions (so it would be gross rev.) and then added this little itty bitty thing about 'enhancements'...so it is very important.

http://gomarcellusshale.com/forum/topics/market-enhancement-clause-and

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 12, 2011 at 3:14pm

After reading the other posts you pointed me to, I have to say I answered to quickly. I can see where, the "enhancement" clause can create a great deal of controversy or opening for abuse...

I would follow their advice and restrict or elliminatethe clause alltogether..

but's that's me ;-)

Permalink Reply by Sherry on January 12, 2011 at 2:30pm
One of the facets of this thread I am appreciating is the sharing of new ideas regarding fracing, not whether it should be done, but the sharing of information about how it can BEST be done.  Thank you all for your input.  What and how you are discussing this issue is much better than simply complaining about a procedure without providing solutions.
0l1a6laz7smpfPermalink Reply by 0l1a6laz7smpf on January 12, 2011 at 2:32pm
amen...and welcome.
Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 12, 2011 at 2:53pm

As a landowner, I have invested all of my life savings into my home. I don't plan on going anywhere and I will do everything in my power to protect my home. At the same time , we have been presented a golden opportunity to help our country, our selves, our neigbors and maybe do some good for others.

From a practical perspective, too much capital has already invested into the area for them (O&G) to not Drill. My objective is to see if we can use the leverage  of all the land owners to create A DIALOG for safer drilling..

In my experience in life, there is always a second, third and even fourth option to solving any problem..;-)

Permalink Reply by Brian Day on January 12, 2011 at 3:50pm
All of this sounds wonderful.  First, do not confuse propane with natural gas.  Propane is much heavier than air, so it tends to pool on the ground and displace the air.  This causes danger of sufacation in the immediate area of a leak on a pad.  Propane does not disapate easily in the air like natural gas and its btu content is much higher.  this renders it much more explosive.  I do like the idea but know the dangers should not be ignored.  also, all rig hands that I have talked to mention that using "oil" as  a fracking agent is much more toxic to them than water.  Now I don't know if "oil' and liquid petroleum are the same in rig conversation.

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