Have any groups considered drilling your own well?

Accepting the risk of sounding completely green or ignorant, I just have to ponder why no one has decided to  pool together and hire a driller for fee.  Having observed payouts of $90K per month and doing the simple math, a small group of landowners should be able to contract a driller.  I don't know the cost of drilling and fracking but have heard it is in the neighborhood of a 1/2 to 3/4 $million.  Another in the industry told me more like 7-8 $million.  I believe the 3/4, not the 8 because I don't see how it would pay back at a cost of 8.  Of course, transmission lines are another factor but what if, a line is close to the properties.

So, am I the un-informed new guy, drilling rigs for hire not available, industry just has it all tied up, too much dreaming......

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Permalink Reply by New Field Farm on March 26, 2013 at 10:37am

A comment was made to compare the subject of this thread with becoming your own general contractor.  Interestingly enough, my first real estate venture 20 years ago included building an apartment unit and after contractor bids came in ridiculously high, I decided without any construction experience, to do it myself.  I did extensive homework, brought in some private investors and hired an individual with experience.  All my activities were on the level, fully permitted.  Those contractors who found out what I decided stormed into the county building permit office attempting to stop me.  Long story short, I paid investors an 18% annualized return, completed 3% under budget (45% below bids), on time, reached 100% occupancy at 1 month after completion and learned a lot about the industry.  A simple example but the point is, we don't want to get into a mindset as American citizens that we cannot achieve results, that's not why our nation exists.

Permalink Reply by Trapper on March 26, 2013 at 1:02pm

Thank you NFF for a breath of fresh air! Too many people today succumbing to a defeatist attitude and joining the ranks of the nay sayer. Thank God there are still some free thinking individuals left.

Like I said before , Henry Ford , were he still alive , wouldn't be buying gas to run his factories if he could drill his own!

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on March 26, 2013 at 10:57pm

HMM...not bad - not a bad idea. Not-tat-tall...TALL ORDER, that is - BIG 'BITE', but it CAN be done - where there's a WILL, there's a WAY...called being a 'WILDCATTER'...and from just surmising HOW the 'responses' ARE to your thought, New Field Farm...(I 'see' the 'respectful' PACK of FRACK WOLVES - snarling & pacing like...'well', 'WELL' - FRACK WOLVES! 'nough said...).

NOW, I, too had this thought, knowing of the 'WILDCAT CREWS...I keep seeing the $10 MIL ceiling being thrown out there very shrewdly & loosely. HOW do YOU know how much it cost to 'drop a well'?

I recall reading a few years back that the 'vertical' wells were in the $2 MIL range...and the 'horizontal' around a 'BIT' more than double that - but NOT over 5 MIL. *HMMM...gives one pause, eh?

IF/WHY 'DOES' the 'industry' have things 'all tied up'? Would THAT be market domination? (Collaboration? - Colluding, perchance?)...companies can get into big, BIG trouble over something such as that - price fixing & all...don't they? Again - just running my thoughts out loud....You are RIGHT to believe NOTHING that you 'hear'...and only a small percentage that one 'sees'...so the OLD saying goes, IF I'm recalling it correctly....

==========================%%%$$$%%%$$$+++---%%%$$$###!!!whatwhatwhat...that's what I thought you said...shush!

NOW, back to the matters at hand...you know good ole' ROCK the boat-feller TRIED to 'corner' the market in this VERY AREA of the Eastern States when it ALL BEGAN...and then, 'WELL'...you can read, too. LOTS 'out there', but THE PRIZE is a good place to begin. IF you want to even get a smidgin' of understanding in WHAT you're somewhat dealing with here...follow the money. Thar's BLACK GOLD under that there shale under yer' toes! - yeah, YOU'VE got a shot...may just take some DIGGING! & FRACKING of knowledgable minds yourself & you just may 'strike it' right! GO FOR IT!

...these 'guys' ARE SCARED...'they' have a RICH (dirty) little 'secret' BLACK CAT that they don't want to 'let out of THEIR BAG'. YOU may have hit on something that they are SCARED might UPSET THEIR 'APPLE' CART...WELL, WELL, WELL...DRILL, BABY, DRILL - it DOES have a 'ring' to it.

The 'RING' is YOURS to have - it's a FREE COUNTRY & there are enough BRILLIANTLY SMART, TALENTED individuals running about that CAN (***AmeriCAN***) figure out & put together something that would work - work just fine. HECK - you MAY even come up with YOUR VERY OWN 'intellectual property' in coming up with a 'better & SMARTER' way of 'going for the Black Gold...without doing as much 'dim-witted damage' as THESE HUTSPA-CHUTZPAH'S are 'blowin' smoke' with, maybe?! *They're scared that SOMEONE MIGHT ***ENDEAVOR*** (Shakelton 'Endeavor'ed - where there is a WiLL, there is a WAY!).

Never give up - Never give up - Never give up - Never give up - Never give up...where there's a WILL (***'well will'?...) - there IS a WAY...Now THAT is the AmeriCAN way of thinking.

-----------------------

I can tell you this...that this 'industry' ISN'T 'that old...what only 160 or so years old?! ***THINK about that! AND the SMART, tough Ruskie that came here & 'made his own way (again - READ...this time read about ***Arm N. Hammer - YES - that was his REAL NAME. The Russian - Arm N. Hammer! (like what is their flag symbol...arm n' hammer - see? HE was the first one to COME UP even with the IDEA of 'fracking' - and like I've said - I believe the 'chemical division' of Occidental Petroleum (symbol: OXY) is up in NY...and HAL probably gets their 'poison mix' up there. Sniff around, if you REALLY are that curious...one never knows WHAT they come up with...gone fishin'...lots of Tool & Die makers in PA. - I believe that Meadville, Pa. is dubbed the 'TOOL & DIE CAPITAL of the WORLD?! - I know that Talon Zipper was there...and lots of military & automotive (AND DRiLLING EQUIPMENT?...gotta' start somewheres...I know that if they 'don't' make it...that they'd be the first place I'd start asking & get references!).

You know - people in 'ANY INDUSTRY' all 'know each other'...don't necessarily 'like' or 'work with' each other...but they KNOW each other...for sure. Be a good place to start...oh, and don't be scared of these guys - they ARE like the wolves...they'll huff & they'll puff (& fluff)...and they'll 'blow on your house'. WATCH & READ what they say in TRYING to squelch your 'hair-brained idea' that may NOT be so 'hairbrained' after all...who is John Galt?

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. Let's 'see' what 'noble thoughts' get 'floated out there' on THIS 'write'.... Be the ball - you got it! Never give up - where there's a will, there's a WAY!

*The Prize

*Arm N. Hammer - Occidental Petroleum (OXY)

*Meadville, Pa. - Tool & Die Industry

...Ida Tarbell NEVER gave up...and remember what happened? - she went to Allegheny College by the way...she JUSTIFIED what happened to her father & other business people in the Titusville area. SHE 'took the bull' by the horns...and look what happened there? ROCKafeller's 'ROCK' got 'fracked'!

Permalink Reply by New Field Farm on March 29, 2013 at 5:32am

Another potential barrier to consider is availability of land available to lease in proximity to parcels with landowners willing to partner for drilling.  It seems to me one would need a sizable parcel to take upon a drilling operation.  For simplicity, horizontal legs may reach 2500 feet and so a center bore with multiple laterals would require some geometric pool of approximately 1 mile, a section if you like, 640 acres.  The chance of having 10 or so landowners who have not entered a lease and also have gas and oil rights may be a rare opportunity.  With this assumption, rights would need to be purchased for leased parcels requiring capital.  I think this may be a hurdle beyond the technical challenge which has been a large part of the discussion in this thread.  This question leads to another being, what is the minimal size of acreage required for profit assuming average gas production at today's price for gas?

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 6, 2013 at 3:37pm

Here we go...just read this! - "The OCTOPUS"! newdrilling idea! EXTRA, EXTRA: Read All About It!!! Here you go...run with it! Oil & Gas Trader ... an ECO-FRIENDLY Technology ***8X more powerful than Fracking.

You've got to listen & learn to learn for yourself...BUT is said to only cost around $2 MIL, much more substantial production without the 'damage' that the 'Horizontal & Vertical Hydraulic Fracturing' T-REX's... You know what happened to the dinosaur? They're extinct...

Time brings change...oh, & less environmental impact - reduction of approximately by 75%!...You REALLY NEED check this out for yourself!!! It can be a game changer. Enjoy! I found it intriguing! You will too...I think so, anyway....

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. NOW - who to contact, HOW to contact the 'right person' to gain for NY-OH-PA this new technology...sounds like lots done in ND...Encana?...learn for yourself - game changer!

Permalink Reply by PA roughneck on April 7, 2013 at 7:37am

GG- we're already doing this in PA and OH! I work a 'walking rig' and have for the past 7 years!
      6 hole, 10 hole pads out here are becoming the norm! Hell, in Colorado Encana has done a 50 hole pad! 

  here is a link to one in action-Patterson walking rig-Range

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 7, 2013 at 10:08am

Fascinating. WHERE in PA & OH? So it is possible & IS being done - again, where?

Watching HOW they operate the 'movable pad'- I recall discussions I had with my own father - years & years ago...he had thought that the large stone blocks that were used in building the pyramids were operated in the same manner. From what I watched - they take the rig & move forward...this taking the rear supports & moving them to the 'front' to be moved forward.  Again, fascinating!

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. NOW - WHY don't you hear of this? Wouldn't knowledge of  this kind of technology tone down the hubub that you hear concerning true worries concerning water - for the everyday person...but then - this isn't something that tends to be 'morning discussion'...or after dinner talk, is it?...but at one time - it definitely would be - in my house, anyway....

NOW, PA roughneck - if I may ask, who are you with?...and WHERE in PA & OH is this being done? The only thing I'm not sure if I understand is the WATER USE with this technique - is it as consuming as the other well drilling tech? Can you provide more information to garner from? Thank you for your reply.

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness. *7 years - imagine that...boy, am I behind 'the eight ball' on this one! (and I'm sure much, much more...)

Permalink Reply by PA roughneck on April 7, 2013 at 12:56pm

GG,
   My employer (a large drilling contractor) has our walking rigs in NE PA, SW PA, OH, WV as well as WY,TX,ND,KS and CO.
  As far as the drilling goes, it's EXACTLY like drilling a horizontal well on a rig without a walking system, all it does is save time moving from well to well. Water use and all other details are just the same!
  Multi-well pads are getting pretty commonplace these days, but even as we work to continually improve our ability to extract gas/oil with minimal impact, there are those who could care less, their only desire is to see ALL drilling ended.
  I've often explained to anti-drilling folks that with horizontal wells we can use 6-8 wells to access the same deposits that used to require 16-64 wells! They continually bring up casing problems in the past yet cannot fathom that drilling FEWER holes through the water table REDUCES the odds of a casing/cementing problem that might contaminate local waters.
  Their minds are made up and there is no reaching the most vocal of them!

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 7, 2013 at 2:38pm

OK, if I'm understanding correctly - the 'principle' rolls the same, just not needing the 'break-down/set-up' again & again...is THAT where the 'savings' come in? From what I've read - I'd think that was so.

No, 'no drilling' is not 'the answer'...people like their cars, their tupperware, their 'modern conveniences' too much..in fact it's funny - alot of the 'organic' products are put into plastic containers, bags, or wraps of sorts. If it really was THAT big of a problem - then they should use biodegradable's for their items...as should the fast food places - their containers & such. BUT it would be too cost inhibitive...THAT is the real reason why things/dreams such as this just won't fly...people in general do not think in 'the why's' of why this/why not that...& therein lies the problem.

I know that at some point in time - as with all things - there WILL be a 'better way'...look at HOW the G&O industry HAS evolved over the course 'not that long ago' time...1859.

WHAT kind of cement IS used? a 'fine' cement - seating a but like a porcelain state?...is Range Resources who you work with? Like what I hear about them. RRC

Now, wait a minute - as I re-read your note..you are saying that 'it is EXATLY like drilling a HW', minus the 'walking system'...but then WHY is this NOW just coming to the forefront? WHY wasn't THIS information better known?...THAT is confusing. I was just talking to an O&G  the other day - mentioned this & THEY KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT. I would appreciate it if you could clarify that for me, if so.

****WHY can't I even find info. that easily on this?...IF it's been 'done so long' (you said you've worked on 'walking rigs for x7 YEARS'...then WHY don't people know about them?...and IF they were really being used that much - then WHY don't we have this type of drilling done in NY/OH/PA? Techdrill - Drilling Software - OCTOPUS... have you heard of or dealt with THIS co.?...

Microblog: The “Octopus” – eco-friendlyalternative to fracking | St... ...OK - they also say how the 'eco-friendly part' comes in not having to disturb land by breakdown/set-up. But still - THIS information would perhaps give better 'press' to the O&G? I will read more & learn more myself. - and information that you can forward for myself & other's understanding - greatly appreciated. Thanks.

-----------------------------------------

As one light lights another, nor grows less - so nobleness enkindles nobleness.

Permalink Reply by David Perotto on April 7, 2013 at 3:09pm

GG,

Visit Gulfport's website. They are now tweaking the frac stages, spacing and lateral length. These companies are going to maximize the yield and reap even more carbons per well. The exciting thing is that will give us even more total, recoverable resource. This will result in even more long term energy independence. Oil & gas extracting is evolving rapidly, future practices will look vastly different than today's operations. Fascinating.

2z248p19vqnh9Permalink Reply by 2z248p19vqnh9 on April 13, 2013 at 10:20am

could you please provide a source to what you are referring with GPOR, David. Went to their site & tried News & Events...but is there something more that you are referring to? Please forward - thanks.

Permalink Reply by Jack Straw on April 7, 2013 at 3:21pm

RE: "As far as the drilling goes, it's EXACTLY like drilling a horizontal well on a rig without a walking system, all it does is save time moving from well to well."

The ability to quickly walk a rig over and drill multiple wells from a single pad saves an enormous amount of time in mob, demob, rig up/rig, down and move.

Time is money. Faster rig moves save time and money. Cheaper wells mean more wells. Good news for all. Faster rig moves mean more wells.

I'll take a video of a walking rig "doing its thing"  over a video of Michael Jackson doing his "Moon Walk".

 

All IMHO,

                JS

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