Cheney Exemption (The Halliburton Loophole)

Trying to educate here. Is Fracing exempted from the clean water act? I saw a story somewhere recently but cant find it, anyone got a link?

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Permalink Reply by Kathleen on August 15, 2013 at 9:13am
I have read about that Halowich's and shake my head every time and think, can I buy a house I know is next to a retention pond, lease to an oil and gas co., say I looked into my surrounding than get them to buy my house for 2x's its worth and get to keep my royalties. I get that is nuts :0)
Fracking is an Industry and in an industry is many moving parts. If the anti fracking people were smart they would stop saying fracking is a problem and pick on a moving part.
There has been confirmed reports of pollution due to moving parts of fracking. One was some what local to me, where a slag drive, after a storm, ran into a pond and most, if not all, of the fish died.
WV has CHK on what I guess is probation for blocking streams, to make roads or something like that.
All large industry's do stuff like this, they shouldn't but they do.
I'm being realistic and know another pond will be polluted, another stream will be blocked, and another driller will dump some fluid (mostly water :0) ) to save money.
Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 15, 2013 at 9:27am

Kathleen,

With all due respect, fracking is not an industry it is a process, a part of the completion process.

There has never been a confirmed incident of pollution due to fracing. The instances you cite have nothing to do with fracing.

I am familiar with the incident where pollution of a pond due to the use of steel mill slag. The use of this material is not limited to the oil and gas industry. So it should not be used as proof of pollution due to shale development.

Permalink Reply by Kathleen on August 15, 2013 at 9:48am
What I like about living where we do is we can see things the same but a little different.
IMO you cannot have the Fracking process without the other moving parts.
Its these other moving parts that I feel will always cause the problems.
I want to be clear, I'm not arguing with you, I feel we need fracking and back fracking, I just see where a problem can come up. No industry is 100%, since it depends on people and people are not perfect.
What I wish in the long run, is the general public to see all industries have problems. To see what is allowed daily on our roads now that no one thinks twice about since they are used to it.
I worry more about those gasoline trucks driving our rural highways, those triple trailers scaring me on the freeways with careless drivers behind the wheels... These are things people are used to seeing.
Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 15, 2013 at 9:29am

Matthew,

Further,

People who believe that hydraulic fracturing can pollute the water table, or other sources of fresh water, don't understand the process. If they did they would know that it isn't plausible.

0i7okn54zwbdoPermalink Reply by 0i7okn54zwbdo on August 15, 2013 at 12:25pm
Casing failure does not equal pollution from the fracturing process. When done properly fracking is safe. Like literally everything else in the world when there are mechanical failures the integrity of the process is compromised.
Permalink Reply by wyalusing jim on August 15, 2013 at 12:38pm

"Well casings cant fail? Yes fracking is only part of the process. The process in whole i believe in very limited and unlikely circumstances can pollute the environment including the water table"

true!

but has there ever been a documented case of this happening?

and then ask yourself, how serious would this pollution be if/when it ever does happen.

in fact there have been frac fluid spills throughout the history of the use of the process. one which occurred right here in Bradford county was when the atgas well experienced a wellhead failure. roughly 12,000 gallons of fluid unexpectedly blew out of the well and overcame the containment around the wellpad. most of those 12,000 gallons flowed into a small drainage, into a creek and eventually into the Susquehanna river.

dep was onsite very quickly and set up monitoring equipment in the Susquehanna to detect the chemicals from the frac fluid. they could not detect them, because of dilution. first, the chemicals in the fluid are less than 1% of the total. over 99% is water. then, this dilute solution when mixed with the flows of even small streams becomes so diluted as to be undetectable..fractions of ppm's.

then...how dangerous are the chemicals themselves even in higher concentrations? not very. one component of frac fluid is hydrochloric acid, the same acid that your stomach uses to digest your food. only in extremely high concentrations are these chemicals dangerous at all, concentrations which do not exist in the fracing process.

I think that the biggest question that we should all be asking is, how clean was our water to begin with? the truest answer if we are going to be honest is, that our water supplies, whether private wells of even municipal water supplies are not really what could be described as "clean". not that all water from wells is dangerous or even bad, but it sure as heck aint "clean".

there's lots of nasty stuff in all water wells, from arsenic to bacteria, and that water doesn't kill us. and the real truth is that even after 20 plus years of hvhf, the water we drink from the ground is about the same as before all of this started.

can a water well be contaminated by the hvhf process? sure. you might also be hit and killed by an asteroid or a chunk of space junk tomorrow morning on your way to work. are you worried about that? it seems that the odds are about the same, and you'd have a better chance of surviving a glassful of frac water than that asteroid.

wj

Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 15, 2013 at 4:53pm

wj,

Several studies have confirmed what you just said, that the water wells of PA are already hold sources of contamination not related to shale development.

In fact you are more likely to be hit by a car and killed than you are having your water well polluted by hydraulic fracturing.

So I suppose we should ban cars. They are far more dangerous to human life than hydraulic fracturing.

Permalink Reply by wyalusing jim on August 15, 2013 at 10:22pm

mark, people just do not want to accept that the water they drink from private wells in pa is already polluted to some extent, but that is the truth.

anyone who lives within 5 miles of the Susquehanna and drinks water from their deep well is drinking a toxic chemical cocktail sourced from one of the most polluted rivers in the world. my gosh, you are even advised by the pa fish commission not to eat the fish from the river it's so bad.

and the gas industry is gonna make this situation worse how?

wj

Permalink Reply by Susquehanna Sally on August 18, 2013 at 6:23pm

Thank you Katleen and wj for your well thought out posts

Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 15, 2013 at 4:48pm

Matthew,

BTW, the word is naive.

As a typical anti shale person you use the old tactic of confusing issues.

Again, in 65 years and in over 47,000 shale wells hydraulic fracturing has never caused pollution.

So stick to the issue and cite just one incident, just one.

Permalink Reply by randall gottus on August 15, 2013 at 12:51pm

Mark, get real...there are always risks here, and therefore potential damage to the environment, as there was with strip mining, etc., no free lunch anywhere in the energy industry. Too many moving parts here. Yes, it (the process as you call it) sounds good on paper, but in real life...incidents have happened and will continue to happen. Whether they get reported or not, or reported correctly, we will never know.   And just because I am a little more realistic, it does not mean I am anti-fracturing or what ever.   So...why are you getting so defensive with others here? ..be a little more open-minded, and lighten-up on the caffeine.

Permalink Reply by Mark McGrail on August 15, 2013 at 4:42pm

randall,

Sounds good on paper ? We have 65 years of practical experience not just some theory on paper. Over 47,000 shale wells fraced. Not one incident of pollution due to hydraulic fracturing.

Do you really understand what you are saying ? Are you suggesting that there may have been incidences of pollution that went unreported? Please ! We are the most litigious society on the face of the earth. No way.

Are you suggesting that a family, or families somewhere have had their water ruined by hydraulic fracturing and they didn't report It? They just said oh well and moved on? That's one of the silliest things I have ever heard.

You are the one who needs to get real.

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