Lein on property

CKH HAS A LEIN ON MY PROPERTY FOR 500 MILLION THEY SAY ITS AGAINST GAS OIL RIGHTS BUT THE WHEN YOU DO TITLE SEARH COMES UP WITH LEIN OM YOUR PROPERTY TRYED REFINACE AN NO BANK WILL TOUCH ME BECAUSE OF THIS AN YES I BEEN ON PHONE WITH THEM AN THEY SAY ITS COMMON FOR THE TO DO THJIS BUT ITS AGAINST GAS OIL RIGHT I FAX THEM THE LETTER I HAVE THEY SAID THEY WOULD LOOK INTO IT I AM IN BEAVER COUNTO OHIOVILLE BOR 15059- 724 643- 1803  WIL THIS ATTACHED TO MY HOME I CAN NOT DO ANYTHING SELL OR REFINACE  THE 500 MILLION IS CREDITLINE ALSO SO EVRYONE SHOULD DO TITLE SEARCH I HAVE FREIND IN FREEDOM PA SAME THING ON HIS LAND

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Permalink Reply by Garry L Miller on December 3, 2013 at 4:11pm

I would like it Please

Permalink Reply by Garry L Miller on December 3, 2013 at 2:56pm

Ron I understand on about the lease an an takeing money out but why is it in the court house on my land why does it not say OG  rights to the lease  the title company said against my property an CKH said thats what it was but has not even called me back after the first 5 or 6 calls i am not trying scare anyone just want whats right for everyone .

015334grltd9mPermalink Reply by 015334grltd9m on December 3, 2013 at 3:56pm

Gary, it is part of your property's history now, but it should not be a negative encumbrance, you may want to call a lawyer and have him explain it to you.

Permalink Reply by Garry L Miller on December 3, 2013 at 4:08pm

i under stand what ur saying .. But it is Negative Encumbrance an it should not be .Can you Eplain That an why again should be on Og rights Only not on proeperty ..Ron Qestion do you work  or have somthing to do with CKH just asking

 

Permalink Reply by Frank Nesmith on December 4, 2013 at 8:30am

I agree. This IS a problem. Garry posted his deed and it says nothing about the loan being on his minerals or gas under the ground. This lien is directly on his property. When a bank gives a loan, whether it be a mortgage or a home equity loan, they can only give the loan based on the equity in the property at hand. If it is already mortgaged to the max, no bank will touch it. By all appearances, it is, and not through anything Garry did.

This speaks to a bigger problem. Prior to this, it was only Aubrey McClendon taking out the loans on his portion (2.5%) of the property. Now it's CHK themselves. Are they in bigger trouble than we know about?

The biggest problem yet is the question of what Deutsche Bank will do if CHK defaults on the loan. Will Garry lose his property? I fear that CHK has started something with this and perhaps even more companies will take this tactic when funding dries up. Will the banks end up owning all of our properties? For all we know, this could be something that is common. I know a lot of people are going to start checking their mortgages at the local courthouses now.

Permalink Reply by craig on December 4, 2013 at 11:27am

Frank, you are feeding the fire on this topic. 

Fact: CHK has been borrowing against production in this manner for years.... in Bradford County pa for example.

Fact: Deutsche Bank cannot touch your real property only the leased minerals under it if CHK defaults.

From all the info and mis-info posted here, it seems that the problem revolves around the Title company not doing their job properly by not tying these 'loans' to the lease of minerals. Problem is ANY banker worth their salt should know this. So my guess is either these bankers don't know what they are doing or the 'higher ups' in the bank have a blanket course of action in regards to this, or they are using it as an excuse to not mortgage/re-mortgage for other reasons (possibly illegal reasons).

This has been pointed out several times in this thread and there are still people in dis-belief..... and nothing will change that. If you still don't believe this then hire a lawyer for pete's sake!

Permalink Reply by Frank Nesmith on December 4, 2013 at 1:43pm

Craig,

I don't know why I cannot add a reply to your post below, so I am adding it here. You state things as facts, but are not backing anything up with proof. You say that CHK has been borrowing against property for years in Bradford County, but it wasn't CHK to my knowledge. It was Aubrey McClendon. CHK borrowing against property is new to my understanding. This is scary for anyone with a lease.

And you go on to state another "Fact: Deutsche Bank cannot touch your real property only the leased minerals under it if CHK defaults." Again, without anything to back it up. 

You state that I am feeding the fire. Trust me. I do not intend to do so. I'm worried for myself and anyone else with a lease. All we have heard is how dumb the banks are. I hesitate to say there must be some intelligent people working at the banks, or they would not be in business.

If the problem truly is with the title company, what do you propose we do to correct the problem?

Finally, you can continue to point things out and state so called facts that are not backed up with anything, other than your word that they are facts, when the real facts are that there are deeds to land that still state that there are exhorbitant loans against the properties by CHK and that is hurting those that leased. Garry is the one that posted the facts. He's screwed, and so are many others. If he wanted to sell tomorrow and get out, he can't. There is no production on his land so he is stuck. That's wrong and it really should be up to CHK to fix it.

Permalink Reply by craig on December 4, 2013 at 5:56pm

Frank, I didn't mean to stoke the fire with my post. Sorry if it was taken that way. I'm just sick and tired of beating some of these horses to death here at GMS.  I have 3 pieces of land leased by CHK. All three are part of this loan deal. I know what I know. Just sharing what I know to be true. I also know there is alot of crap posted as fact here. Gary really needs to get a lawyer involved, unfortunately for him....pay a lawyer to find the answer , that's what some of us do, or have to do sometimes when good money is on the table. They sure won't give you free answers here!

 I'm in Beaver County as well. 

Permalink Reply by Frank Nesmith on December 4, 2013 at 11:58pm

I understand, Craig. I'm also sorry if I came off the wrong way. Let's admit it. This is a real and pressing problem for some and it's up to CHK to make it right. People that have no royalties coming in are in a real fix that was imposed on them by CHK. If you have the liens on your property and it's not a problem for you, we are all glad for you. Just hoping that you don't end up needing to sell or refinance like some others. We all believed them when we signed the leases and in our wildest dreams, we didn't think we'd see this. The very least they could do is tell people when they sign leases that this could be an issue. I'm just hoping that Garry can get them to remove the lien or just release him from his lease (which we know won't happen).

Bottom line is that when you lease, you need to be fully aware that they can and probably will place a lien on your property. Then you can go about making an informed decision on whether leasing is something you want to do, or not.

Permalink Reply by craig on December 5, 2013 at 5:19am

I doubt the lien will be removed, nor will they release him from his lease. 

Facts:  Ok, I just got off the phone with my PNC bank. They said they have had no issues with this and for Garry to stop in and they will see what they can do. They are fairly busy with financing of this type. No problems on their end, unless it deals with the individual's history.

Second hand info: I was also told that ESB bank does have an issue with O&G leases of most kinds, let alone the "lien" situation.... so they aren't interested anymore. I didn't call them though. 
I do business with both banks.

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