Here is another piece of info .
My attorney did some research today and discovered that there is a current case in the courts in PA . The case revolves around a person claiming that they have the mineral rights and that the shale rock is in fact a mineral , therefore the gas right holder cannot harvest the gas from the shale rock which the rights owner claims is a mineral .
I'd be leery of the verbiage your potential buyer has presented. "Minerals" is too vague a term, for the reason you just referenced above. The buyer knows why he/she is making an offer for the mineral rights on your property...I'd make them list out very specifically what minerals are being transferred (i.e.: limestone, coal (maybe only a specific vein), etc.).
In your situation, I'd be scared that the buyer would bring a lawsuit or make a claim sometime in the future that "minerals" include the gas/oil rights you were supposedly allowed to keep.
Best of luck.
Pa supreme court already cleared this up in Butler vs Powers. Oil and gas is not part of the mineral estate. It is common to retain O&G rights and transfer Mineral rights. Attached is Reservation Language. One other issue is when you reserve the mineral rights you will get a tax bill for them, oil and gas is not taxed. This is for PA. NY may be different.
Would "gravel-sand" be considered a mineral? Is the property in an area where gravel could be sold?
As I have mentioned in a earlier post , my attorney has taken note of a pending case in PA were the mineral owner has taken claim to the shale rock as a mineral , then claiming the gas is derived from the 'mineral shale' .
Yes, they are a type of mineral, and I know of surface owners (in other states) who had to get the permission of the mineral owner for small scale extraction.
We have written up a new contract and have included mineral rights along with gas/ oil rights . Thanks for all the input , it is a useful discussion . Joe
I'm familiar w/ Cattaraugus and Allegany counties in NY. Your minerals of value could be streambed gravel which has been dredged up considerably outside of Portville headed towards Eldred, PA and across the PA line on Rte 44 S . Turn @ Ceres and heads toward Shinglehouse, you'll see what I mean.
It will likely be a bonus for you to hold onto the O&G, esp. if you go into a long term care facility sometime in the future. Don't let the deep ponds on both sides of Rte.44S scare you for O&G development. Note laterals can reach out for 2 miles now. Who knows what it will be by the time NY allows drilling?????
In Ohio, oil and gas are taxed at production. So is coal. But if the other mineral rights (limestone, clay, iron ore etc) are separated from the surface owner, they can be taxed yearly even though no production is occurring. Each county has their own assessment rate on these other minerals. The taxes can be quite high on these. Therefore before you retain them when selling your surface property, you will want to check with your county auditor to understand what the tax implications will be.
The lawyers in Ohio /PA. WVA. are making out bigtime on the oil&gas inerests.It's a great time to be one in the Shale plays.
I don't know if this is true or of any consequence but at one point the O&G company who holds our lease (not drilled) told us that they were waiting for the Coal Industry to sign off on whether they would allow drilling in the area in which we hold OIL and Gas Rights, because
in Ohio the Coal Industry has first rights of refusal on whether to mine the area or not.