Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Barbara on October 16, 2011 at 6:25am

most bad effects are cumulative and would not be present with just momentary exposure.  and the crews themselves are often fellows who work there for only a relatively short time....to move on or to quit the work all together.  i doubt they drink the well water there, also. 

think of places like love canal.....'clusters' of cancer appeared after many years of exposure there, and then slowly there was a big 'duh' as the causes were found.................and DENIED by the industry for years. 

this is not a new or unique phenomenon here.......and this is exactly why some thought and care before jumping in gung ho is warranted.  we're talking months until your big bucks......since this is all 'found' money anywhere, none of us even dreamed of this five years ago.........seems not so long to wait when lifetimes of change are at stake.  and lives themselves could be at stake. or your grandchildren's?

Permalink Reply by Jake Jackson on October 13, 2011 at 2:46pm

http://www.propublica.org/article/science-lags-as-health-problems-e...

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/health-science/item/20692-in-gas...

I want to believe that this could be good for our state and our country but the more research i do the more information i find that it isn't good.  It's a total industrial project, not the shallow wells we are used to.  It isn't realistic to think that this process doesn't come with major impacts. I think the questions are:  do you want to live in an industrial area, with major environmental impacts, water and air contamination and some definite long lasting health and safety issues or do we try to say not until all the problems that are coming along with it are solved?

The lease I was offered was very vage, and I get no free gas or even a discount.  The environmental impacts would be cleaned up!!!""" I thought there aren't any impacts.  And the other thing I didn't like, why do I have to have my water tested and prove this isn't safe.  Since when did the burden of proof become the job of the people and not the corporations who are doing the impacts?  Listen, I want jobs, I want the economy to get better, but I want a place where my children and grandchildren can live with clean air and water.  We spend millions of $$ to cure cancer yet we are allowing proven carcenoengenic chemichals to be injected into our land and water.  This doesn't make much sense to me.

And when I asked to have my lawyer look over the lease and come back with some suggestions, the land men told me it might be too late? Too late for what? For a better offer? The whole thing seemed fishy to me.  I'm still investigating and the more I read the more hesitant I become.

What is that, I can't protect my family from a major decision like this.  This is major industry, not just some little digging in your yard. You better have your basis covered.  There are a lot of problems in PA and Ohio will be no different. I was always taught that if the offer seems too good to be true it probably is.  Well even if you are condisering it, just make sure you know the facts.  Mine subsidence insurance is automatically canceled on my insurance. Some Banks are not lending money to buy homes in a 3 mile radius of drilling and there are many other considerations to take before you decide.  I would like nothing else than for this to be all good, but just like everything there are impacts....the problem with this industry is the impacts are really quite large and some are serious and irreversable.  A risk I have decided not to take.  Oh one more thing I was told. "All your neighbors have signed so you might as well since it will be all around you"

I was the first in my area, when i asked some of my neighbors, many of them said they wouldn't do it.  Make sure you are getting the truth which I have found is hard to come by with this industry.  The gas isn't going anywhere, why take the risk when there is too much out there to learn before we just do it and very much at stake. Once it's there you can't go back. Hopefully you will get enough to be able to move. There are many people in PA who can't sell their homes.  Like in TX, who wants to buy a home with no clean water and air that stinks to high heaven.  It's worth the time to educate ourselves on the matter....the gas isn't going anywhere and I doubt the industry is either, even though they through out those threats.  It's really becoming more and more disheartening the more I find out because I really wanted this to be a good thing. Good luck everyone. I respect what ever you decide to do with your land. Just make sure you and your family will be able to live with it. 

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Permalink Reply by BA on October 14, 2011 at 4:49am

Don't worry about the landman saying it is too late. They always play the hot and cold game. If you want free gas, have the lawyer put the provision in your lease. The gas co's usually allow a decent amount, like 300,000 ft^3/yr. You are correct about some gas companies polluting with frack water. I know a guy who works on a fracking crew. He said about five years ago, his company routinely dumped used frack water in streams or on the ground occasionally. However, this doesn't represent all fracking co's. Also, he said they quit doing that because they have been under so much scrutiny in the past couple years. I agree some companies need to have supervision, unfortunately. Even though some of the environmentalists demands have been extreme, they still play a vital role in keeping these companies in check, and the companies have no one to blame but themselves for this self imposed oversight. Many folks cut corners if they can, to say a few bucks. It's common in business, unfortunately. I believe though, that with continuous improvement in non toxic fluid technology, that gas will continue to be a promising fuel. Also, I feel it is superior to coal, at least when looked at from a pollution standpoint. According to Northeast States for Coordinated Air Use Management in 1999, U.S. coal fired electrical generation plants emitted 47.8 tons of mercury into our atmosphere, oil generation plants emitted .5 tons, and natural gas plants emitted .44 tons. A 2002 EPA Mercury fish advisory has Pennsylvania, as well as many other northeastern and midwest states' lakes and rivers, under advisory because of methylmercury contamination. So, in light of these numbers, I favor natural gas generation. As a concerned public, it is necessary that we ensure, for ourselves and our families, that the gas companies do as they say.

Permalink Reply by Jim Litwinowicz on October 10, 2011 at 5:53am

Thats ridiculous. If crews were sick, losing hair or teeth, and/or dying the media would have a field day with it.

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Permalink Reply by Jake Jackson on October 13, 2011 at 2:50pm

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120043996

unfortunately I have found many stories that say it is really dangerous and serious health impacts occur.

And for the remark about 911, you should open your eyes and do some reading. Those poor fire fighters are still suffering, that is an unfair remark and  a very ignorant one to say the least.

Permalink Reply by Barbara on October 16, 2011 at 6:17am

and if they didn't????

 

this was to have replied to the three stooges plumbing comment......don't understand how it got here.....

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Permalink Reply by craig on October 8, 2011 at 3:05pm

Katherine,

No, it is funny to all that know how much of what the video presents is hogwash. 

Credibility of the producers of videos like this goes to zero when the facts are matched up with the presentation. 

Nothing more needs said.

 

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Permalink Reply by paleface on October 10, 2011 at 2:25pm

 Katherine,what was it that you didn't believe about 9/11 ?

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Permalink Reply by Karen Bagdes-Canning on October 15, 2011 at 1:52pm

I just received this in my mail.

Ball tells Cuomo: “Don’t frack with NY”

BREWSTER – State Senator Gregory Ball (R-Patterson) is urging Governor Andrew Cuomo to tour Pennsylvania to see firsthand the impacts of hydrofracking on communities. At the same time, Ball is asking Cuomo to take steps to “protect New Yorkers from the potentially devastating effects” of fracking. Ball hopes to build support for legislation he has proposed – the Property Owner’s Bill of Rights, which would include mandatory water and soil testing for the presence of chemicals used in the drilling process; would require fracking companies to sign a presumption of causation agreement with the state; would mandate full reimbursement to property owners by negligent gas companies for 150 percent of the real estate’s market value; would mandate full remediation of soil and water, and free medical monitoring for life; would allow local governments to enact or enforce laws and ordinances related to oil, gas and solution mining; and would mandate adherence to an environmental impact assessment process. Ball plans on holding a media event next week to call further attention to the issue.

We are being held up as the example of how to be taken advantage of by gas companies.   Wouldn't it be nice if our legislators took care of us in this way instead of being mouth-pieces for the gas industries.

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Permalink Reply by George Brown on October 15, 2011 at 2:23pm

Thanks Karen, but I prefer to take care of myself.  The last thing I need is some legislator taking care of me. If you prefer to live in a nanny state, God bless you.  As for me, I'll take liberty.

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Permalink Reply by Karen Bagdes-Canning on October 16, 2011 at 9:15am

This is real simple George, we will have little control over our lives once we let the industry in.  You think industry control is under your control.  We are going to have a lot of people kicking themselves because they chose not to look at what is happening in other areas in which the gas companies drilled.  I'm speaking of "everyone" not just the people who have no land to lease. 

I was in our Sunday School Building and on the Kindergarten classroom they had the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them  do unto you".  What are we teaching our children in this situation?

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Permalink Reply by George Brown on October 16, 2011 at 9:32am

Don't kid yourself, Karen.  We have already ceded control of our lives to the State and Federal governments. At least with a gas company, I have a lease and courts that give me a fighting chance.  The state on the other hand can stop me in my car without probable cause (DUI Checkpoint), kick down the door of my house and charge in with assault weapons drawn because they suspect I have an illegal drug present, take my property using eminent domain to give it to a shopping mall developer who will pay more taxes, force me into a Ponzi scheme called Social Security, even though the courts have ruled I have no right to any benefits under the program, etc., etc. I don't worry about Shell or Exxon, worry about Harrisburgh and Washington, D.C.

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