Comment

Comment by Kim Conaway on April 12, 2012 at 6:19am

Anyone in crawford county actually signing leases with anyone on their own. I don't mean signing with landowner groups with hopes of getting a lease.

 

Comment by Jim Dickinson on April 12, 2012 at 2:27am

Good News.....while worrying about who deserves the gas money,
Crawford County just grabbed up to $355,000 per well...
Don't kid yourself....that money is coming out of the landowners
pocket and what's left will be taxed again ! Now there's a deal !

Comment by Bob Jenness on April 12, 2012 at 2:07am

One Difference I left out yesterday - One of the now unnamed groups we're discussing today is a non-profit, and the other is for-profit.  For comparison, let's consider the (real, on the east side of Cleveland) Cleveland Clinic, and a typical for-profit hospital.  Which one serves its "clients" better?  Which one does more R&D and puts more info in the public domain?  Which one uses all it's considerable negotiating power most efficiently for the benefit of it's clients?

 I really like that the gas, and hopefully liquid stuff under my land will help make several folks members of the "1%" - I just hope one of those folks could be me, and the difference between landman leases and either of these options is a step in the right direction.  

(again) I'd also like to see some negotiator rosters and credentials to help me choose one.  Is there anyone on this forum who's seen CVs for anyone on either negotiating team and/or their probable consultants?  I know that the legal and marketing professions may consider this a bit of a privacy violation, but anyone who's ever applied for a 99%-er professional job has been subjected to it, and since us landowners are "hiring", this would seem to be the key file of factual information we're still missing.  If full-public is too open, how about group "for profit" providing a partnership proposal with CV info to the board of "not-for-profit", who could then share it, and their own negotiators corresponding info with members on a non-disclosure basis?

 If even this is too sensitive, how about rosters and public-domain CV information on the companies and folks on the other side of the table?  Both sides should have collected that info from the public domain by now, I hope.  

Just as one specific example, who negotiated the CHK Barnett lease at $27,500 and 25%,  how did they do it, and where are they now?  A lot of this should be in the public domain since it went to court when CHK apparently decided it was too rich - i.e. the landowner side negotiators apparently way outclassed the CHK side.  I know - nobody wants a lease that must be welched on to avoid messing up the market, but I'd sure like that negotiator to be part of my team, and I'd  be very careful about signing a lease if s/he was across the table.

Comment by petej on April 11, 2012 at 2:28pm

Thank you Janice thank you!

Several well stated posts with all the information I have been trying to find a way to put into words.

Comment by Kim Conaway on April 11, 2012 at 2:01pm

Missed last night's meeting.  Anyone have information from it.  Working on finding the lease that is right for our property.

Comment by Jim Litwinowicz on April 11, 2012 at 11:33am

R East.  I post when meetings are coming up and ask people to come by. Thats it. But every time I do someone has to make some comment about how we are ripping people off or how terrible we are.  At that point, I have very right to defend our system and compare them with others.  You can post your meetings and I will not make a comment. Give me the same courtesy.

Comment by Janice L. Hancharick on April 11, 2012 at 11:29am

Mr. East, I believe it's "trends" we all look for when monitoring happenings in counties outside of our home turf.  When counties east of 4-County began seeing Marcellus action yrs. ago and 4-County rightsholders recognized the play was heading west, many started planning how they were going to spend their $5,000+ AC when their turn rolled around.  Considering what the general public knew then compared to now, its knowledge hadn't even reached the kindergarten stage.  How the gas companies, their agents and the landmen must have been laughing!  Hard to stomach even now.

Ever since '07 I have taken directional cues for advancing the 4-County Leasing Group from the workshops, webinars, personal conversations with, and definitely the written information made available from Penn State's Marcellus Center for Outreach and Development.  The leaders and entire staff of this arm of Penn State have worked diligently throughout the Marcellus/Utica play states and beyond ... pointing out all the issues related to unconventional shale development, and ways to tackle the concerns that do and will arise even before citizens know what to look for. They exist to do this for all who ask, listen, and/or read.

Monitoring blogs, professional journals, newsletters, etc. makes 4-County one of the most highly educated groups in the Marcellus/Utica fairway.  We seek out info from those in the industry ... the "boots to the ground" people to help us better understand. It's not just me but ALL members ( & those that simply show up @ our meetings) who benefit from this approach.  It helps us better understand what we have, surface and sub-surface, that will impact the kind of deal we can expect and the timeframes involved.  Knowledge and timing go hand in hand.  Looking @ what others have done and why, learning why their deals were exceptional or dismal ... 4-County has consistently (with one exception)been associating with the best in their respective fields.  We still do.

No group should enter the picture seeking a good lease with a "Hey!  Do I ever have a good idea that might get a bunch of us landowners lots of $$$!"  That's not operating from strength.  That's another trip to the toy/candy store ... one that could easily become a "grim fairy tale" for future generations.

I believe that Crawford County (and many others) has a population base similar to 4-County's.  Our members are lawyers, farmers, retired blue collar and professional workers, doctors, educators, home-makers, and armed forces personnel.  If we deal with this blessing under our feet differently then so be it.  EACH  group should believe it is doing what is right for the well-being of all ... now and in the future.

Thank you R. East for not mentioning "f" as you referred to it.  Notice that I did not mention "C".  Perhaps the exchange of ideas over the past few days have made readers think beyond the "norm".  I hope so. 

 

Comment by Jim Dickinson on April 11, 2012 at 9:32am

What contracts has NWPA land group achieved ?

Comment by Janice L. Hancharick on April 11, 2012 at 6:45am

It is competition that drives prices up, but not all groups are competing for the same thing Bob.  I believe you recognize this.  Successful leasing revolves around regional (group) "preferred terms" that came from the individuals themselves, as well as $$$ and royalty %'s.  All are "on the table" when negotiations begin.  Companies have their own "table" agendas.  Negotiating is tough, and is continuing to grow tougher as Group Members are educated.  Mmm.  Too bad for ....???  Your call.  That's why we all have turned to professionals.

Being a part of a large pool is important ... more so than 2-3 yrs. ago.  Technology then was such that 640 AC was considered the standard desirable production unit size.  Now that Biggies like Chesapeake are capable of reaching a 2 mile horizontal frack and branching out like spokes on a wheel, that 640 AC unit has doubled ... twice as much AC and still one wellpad.  That's a plus for the environment, the company, and the groups that demonstrate the ability to put such large bundles together. 

I understand "fence-sitters" wanting to hold out till the last moment.  I really do.  What they're doing doesn't benefit any group because companies are like kids in a toy store, i.e. the bigger and shinier the better!  That's what attracts them!  BIG production units.

Late-comers joining after the #'s are known for a fact (NOT  JUST  BIDS) haven't helped drive those #'s up because they weren't part of the mapped picture.  If they had been, certainly the final numbers would have been higher because the group's offering would have been bigger.

"Best possible" lease must meet bottom-line criteria set forth by the landowners AFTER they know what they have geologically speaking, and after they understand the whole process, and current market conditions which can change like the wind.  I hope the firms you referred to ( CX and NWPA) follow those guidelines, and strive to provide a continuing education for the members.   No arm-twisting ... just logical scenarios.

When raising the points "guarantee to be a part of a very large pool ... etc.",  alongside "best possible lease offer"  sounds like both firms are striving to do their best to promote safe, profitable leasing.  I think when 2 parties are striving to do their best it's not their intentions that should be questioned, but more what they bring to the table in past and current professional energy ventures, and how many "settings"  they can place on that table.  Do Group Members really take the time to research the # of people who will be working for them, the reach and # of contacts each firm has?  This takes committment. 

Thank you Bob, for putting your knowledge to work for GMS readers.  This site should always provide food for thought.  End message: Folks just have to make up their own minds.

Comment by R. East on April 11, 2012 at 6:31am

Janice - I've said this before, but will say it again, I am tryiing to let people know that it IS possible to get a very good "deal" without using a "third party" taking 5% or more. Please note I refrained from using the "F" word that you take exception to.

It's funny that you commented on me being part of numerous county groups! I would suspect that you and Jim L. are on far more sites than I am for nothing more than to promote CX. I do not have anything against CX other than, you and Jim L. continuing to tell the world how great they are. I will stop mentioning CX ..if you do the same! As you stated, we are here to get information, not to continually here the "sales pitch" about CX.

Just as a FYI, I have acreage in McKean and Crawford and have joined a couple other County Groups to keep informed.

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