60 MINUTES TO AIR "SHALEIONAIRES"
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Permalink Reply by Brenda Rezvan on
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Exactly, just as there is a difference between natural levels of occurrence and induced occurrences, there are differences in small occurrences in well water due to local methane migration and more recent phenomena of purple drinking water, non-potability, and substantial methane migration which has occurred in the past two years. A conservative recommendation for baseline water testing (not only of personal wells but of lakes and streams by localities) is 6 years prior to drilling.
The fracking process was tested in the 1970's in Texas, Iceland, and South Carolina. It was first implemented on a large scale in Texas. It was never tested in the northern Appalachians. In essence, NEPA has become the guinea pig. That is due to lack of foresight, lack of regulation, and unwariness. There are too many unknowns as well as concerns about not only the fracking fluids that go underground (or migrate through failed well casings or spew upward out of the wells) but the on-site storage, handling, spills, trucking, and treatment of the waste products. This is partially due to the radioactive contamination that can occur underground.
Other states who have observed these events have developed regulatory processes to deal with the industry, but it still remains to be seen if PA can shame drillers like Cabot and East into remedying their hasty mistakes. Moving forward, it should be better, but there should not be a rush to exploit everything possible. The gas is not going anywhere.
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1 have been in the gas industry for 35 years, saw my first well fracked in 1977 near kittanning pa. still have the pictures.
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How was the well fracked then? That would be interesting to see.
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Permalink Reply by I wanna be a SHALEIONAIRE too! on
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Pipeline a necessary solution to Dimock water woes COMMENTARY George E. Turner
IF THE state Department of Environmental Protection’s plan for a water pipeline in a Marcellus Shale-impacted community is “just a conduit for green activists,” as a recent commentary suggested, then why does certain Dimock Township drinking water smell like a chemical factory?
Cabot Oil & Gas Corp. is denying that its gas drilling operations in Dimock, Susquehanna County, caused contamination of drinking water, as stated by DEP Secretary John Hanger in a letter to residents who have been affected. Hanger said, “Cabot is responsible for the gas migration that has caused families to be without permanent water supply for nearly two years, and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania will seek court orders to make Cabot pay for all costs.”
As a licensed geologist with more than 20 years of experience working with groundwater and soil contamination in Pennsylvania and surrounding states, I can state with authority that DEP’s pipeline solution might not be the only solution, and it might not be the best, but it is one that will work.
DEP is justified when it insists that Cabot should pay the $12 million to construct a pipeline from Montrose to Dimock to bring safe drinking water to the people whose lives have been disrupted and endangered by alleged negligence.
As long as DEP is assessing blame and allocating punishment, it should go one step further and force Cabot to clean the groundwater that already is contaminated in the aquifer.
People think that a contaminated aquifer is a “done deal” and can’t be cleaned. Any good hydrogeologist knows better. The aquifer in Dimock can be cleaned, and it needs to be cleaned.
People are focusing on methane contamination in the water. Methane is only a small part of the contamination. Methane has no color. The water from some Dimock wells is gray. Methane has no smell. Dimock water smells like a chemical factory.
Extremely low levels of methane in drinking water are common in this area, so when Cabot says the water was previously contaminated with methane, what it’s stating is technically true. However, when Cabot implies that the heavily contaminated water coming out of the wells now is no different than the water people used to be able to drink, it is stretching the boundaries of believability. Anyone who has seen, or smelled, the water now coming out of the wells in Dimock would know, without a doubt, that nobody ever drank it.
If Cabot did it, as the DEP stated the drilling company did, then Cabot should be forced to clean it. And if the cost bankrupts the company, then so be it. Cabot will then serve as an excellent example to other drilling companies of how not to run a business.
If other drilling companies are terrified of having the same thing happen to them, they will be a lot less likely to make a mistake, and cause another Dimock.
George E. Turner, a resident of Tunkhannock, is a licensed geologist.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
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Good for Mr. Turner.
"Extremely low levels of methane in drinking water are common in this area, so when Cabot says the water was previously contaminated with methane, what it’s stating is technically true."
Yes, this is precisely the lie wrapped in a truth that has been stated in every case of well contamination I've heard of it NEPA. I for one grew up drinking well water, and all my friends and relatives' water likewise was clean and potable. Consciencious people (especially farmers) would have their water tested every few years. True that oily shale rock leaves a little residue in the ponds and even in the little streams that one can see once in a while at the surface. That is much much different than the gray/purple/black water I have seen and smelled and tasted and showered in--coming out of taps--I have not personally visited Dimock, but in other townships with recent gas drilling activity.
The apologists for the gas industry truly amaze me--do they really care less about their neighbors than about advancing an agenda that may or may not bring long-term economic benefit (when balanced with environment damage) to average people in the region?
Yes, I hope that a pipeline will be run to Dimock at Cabot's expense. After years of natural activity the aquifer MAY recharge itself and become potable again, but in the meantime a pipeline is probably more cost effective than a water treatment plant for Dimock.
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did something happen to water wells in dimrock? absolutely. has anyone seen a gas analysis? this can prove if this is shallow or deep gas. to many people rely on reports like 60 minutes or the movie gasland that was more fiction then fact to make up their minds. drilling and fracking can and must be done in a safe and environmentally friendly way. this can be accomplished by inforcement of present dep regulations and the addition of new regulations. any one who does not belive the country needs this new source of energy is very short sigthed. i do wish the residence of dimrock a quick resolve to their problems.
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Permalink Reply by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on
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At least Mr. Turner is a realist, which he has to be since he is in business and cannot piss of the people who are his future customers. I say this because he states it in no uncertain terms, as I quote below:
"As a licensed geologist with more than 20 years of experience working with groundwater and soil contamination in Pennsylvania and surrounding states, I can state with authority that DEP’s pipeline solution might not be the only solution, and it might not be the best, but it is one that will work."
This is the important part....THE DEP's PIPELINE SOLUTION MIGHT NOT BE THE ONLY SOLUTION AND IT MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST......
Smart guy.
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Permalink Reply by Sherry on
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The only thing I ask of those of you still reading part-of-it and mine's posts is: Don't be told what to think - by EITHER of us... If you are really interested in the issues, visit Dimock and Montrose - talk to everyone you can, visit both anti- and pro-drilling sites. Watch the videos on drilling techniques and interviews with real people that appear on E&P and O&G company websites. Read scientific data. Attend industry trade shows and rallies. Somewhere between both sides lies a middle and that is where the basis for SAFE drilling can be found.
Thank you
Sherry
Sorry, it took me awhile to find this link from the Rocket-Courier (October 14, 2010 edition) - Environmental Engineer Explains Methane in Water by Loren Salsman
My name is Loren Salsman and I have lived on the Meshoppen Creek Road in Dimock for 15 years. I likely have increased levels of methane in my well as a result of natural gas drilling around the vicinity of my home. My average methane level is one of the highest in the affected area in Dimock.
My education includes a B.S. degree in Environmental Engineering Technology from the Penn State University at Harrisburg. My experience includes two plus years in Environmental Consulting, including extensive ground-water impact studies, 13 plus years in petroleum con-struction and design, and 1.5 years as a Public Health Sanitarian specializing in residential well water. Upon moving into my residence in 1995, I quickly noticed that there was supersaturated gas in my well water. When pouring a glass of water, the water would be slightly cloudy, and then the bubbles would rush to the surface, dissipate, and the glass of water would be perfectly clear.
Our water test at the time of the purchase of our home revealed moderately hard water and iron levels as well. I knew from my education that these bubbles were from carbon dioxide or methane, and that high mineral and gas contents in water can lead to sulfur water through microbial breakdown of the gas and minerals.
So if you have sulfur water, there's a good chance that you have a significant level of methane in your water. Fortunately, there is no scientific evidence out there that the methane is harmful. Please note that there is no Primary drinking water standard for methane. Primary drinking water standards are set for constituents that present health hazards.
Methane in water is not known to be harmful to human health and there is no Primary or Secondary Drinking Water Standard set for methane.
When a neighbor tried to “recruit” me for the lawsuit against Cabot, he informed me that now “I even have e-coli in my water from Cabot.” Another resident in the lawsuit was in the Susquehanna County Independent stating the same thing.
E-coli is a bacteria that is only found in the intestines of mammals. When found in well water, the presence suggests that you or a neighbor have a poorly constructed septic system that is contaminating the water. E-coli has nothing to do with the drilling process.
One family on Carter Road has brown water. Brown water is a result of soluble iron coming out of solution and making the water look brown. Although your clothes may be rather dingy after washing them, iron is good for you and not hazardous to drink (it’s in your vitamins).
Cabot is in the process of designing and installing on-site water treatment systems as needed. The systems consist of one or two methane aerators (depending on methane concentration), and ozonator, and pre- and post-treatment filters. The systems have proven to reduce methane levels to less than 5 ppm, reduce concentrations of total metals and disinfect the water.
Upon installation of this system, my water quality should be better than it has ever been in the 15 years I have lived on the Meshoppen Creek Road. When reviewing the data and performing a cost benefit analysis, no engineer would ever recommend a $12 million project for 18 residences which, other than their on-lot septic systems polluting their own water, have perfectly fine drinking water.
The on-site treatment systems that Cabot will install will solve all the minor problems that have resulted from drilling. Additionally, water treatment systems such as those being installed by Cabot, are tried and true remedies and have proven to be the solution of choice by PADEP for similar (and worse) water quality issues throughout Pennsylvania.
I hope the new governor will take a fresh look at the science and leave the emotion out of the decision to run a water line. After all, if you have drunk Montrose water lately, I’m sure that you would prefer my treated well water over chlorinated lake water any day.
Sincerely,
Loren Salsman
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Permalink Reply by I wanna be a SHALEIONAIRE too! on
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anthor GD liar!
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Woah! My only point in posting Mr. Salsman's letter is that even the professionals don't agree and that people who care must investigate both sides of the issues.
I ask you one more time, can you either back up your claims that people, including me, are lying or defend the views of those who you cite? If the best argument you can present is "Liar!", If this is the best you can do, you and your group will never be taken seriously in justifying why you denied other satisfactory remedies, leading to the DEP's decision to gamble the State of Pennsylvania's taxpayers money on the $12 Million water line extension.
Best wishes,
Sherry -
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Carol,
You need to know this person is involved with the very small group of individuals in Dimock who are part of the Carter Road lawsuit against Cabot. Over a year ago, it was discovered cement casing was inadequately poured which led to possible gas migration in a number of residences. (keep this in mind - I will touch upon this subject later) Cabot was found at fault for contaminating around 18-19 water supplies and DEP demanded the company remedy the situation and provide a permanent water solution. These solutions included methane filtration systems and new water wells being drilled for all but a few residents. Those "few" residents include Mr/Ms/Mrs "part-of-it" who say they got tired of being experimented on, yet never allowed the filtration installation persons or water well drillers on their properties in the first place, choosing instead to file a lawsuit before the last of their neighbor's filtration systems were installed or the new wells were drilled. (Which, by the way, those residents who chose either of those two options are reportedly satisfied with the quality of their water.)
The last few holdouts (those still named in the lawsuit) have changed their desired outcomes over the last year. In November of last year, from numerous newspaper reports... "The families are requesting a clean up under the Hazardous State Clean Up Act, and medical monitoring, as well as compensatory damages for their loss of property value, emotional distress, and personal injury." It seems the other members of the original group have dropped their part in the lawsuit leaving only this handful. (BTW - property on Carter Road stills goes for around $250K - little loss of property value)
These few have allowed their small town to be used as the anti-drilling advocates' poster child, and helping these groups to wrongly perpetuate Dimock as being a virtual wasteland. In fact, they seem to forget at times the actual cause of their gas migration was improperly poured well casing, instead taking on the pet issue of the anties, i.e. fracing... In a July 31, 2010 Trailer Trash interview (available on YouTube), they refer to their problems being caused by hydraulic fracturing, when in fact that process had nothing to do with their water woes.
Little did you hear from them over the last year about the other compensatory damages they were seeking for their loss of property value, emotional distress, and personal injury, instead touting the ever-popular mantra how it was all about their rights to clean water. Now that a $12 Million waterline extension project has been approved by Pennvest, providing them the clean water they claimed this was all about and letting the other issues being decided quietly in court, they have now started showing their true colors regarding their own greed.
If this was all about making Cabot pay and be responsible, why these quotes:
From this very forum, January 12, 2010 part-of-it responding very vehemently to someone asking a simple question: "I didn't see your name on our list... mind your own business and don't talk crap on us! Deserve.... oooohhhh what WE deserve is coming."
And from the comment section regarding the topic of this thread, 60-Minutes, Switz7, writes, "We simply talked stated that not everyone was happy with the gas boom. That is a fact. Some are benefiting and some are not. They contacted us and asked for an interview. "remedial steps" means corrective action to address the mistakes that Cabot made. We have been experimented enough on. I do not want their treatment system or "fixed" well. I too look forward to the court to resolve issues. I can't wait." Again, she said it, they did not WANT the treatment system or water well. And what is it she can't wait for - could it be the multi-million dollar settlement they have in mind?
IMHO - This has politics written all over it and these Dimock few are simply pawns for all sides. In a way, I feel sorry for them. Their own greed has caused the pitting of neighbor against neighbor you hear about and which the media capitalizes on, greed fed by their only "friends" now being the anties from New York whose only real interest in their problems lies in the ability to spin the circumstances of the Carter Road contamination so as to impose or continue moratoriums in their own counties or states. When all is said and done drilling will continue anyway, being done more safely through increased regulations and geographical knowledge and these few will have only the satisfaction (MAYBE) of a little change in their pockets.
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Permalink Reply by I wanna be a SHALEIONAIRE too! on
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Wow..your soo intelligent and a liar!
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