ALOV and Northern Trumbull County- Updated Discussion to include BP Lessor's and Bonus money Payment's

Hello all!

 I have been doing a little research and speaking with friends and neighbors about forming a group to address the needs of those of us not yet represented by a landowners group.

This led me to call ALOV after hearing that they had accepted some acreage in Trumbull county.

I paid little attention to ALOV earlier as their website did not list Trumbull county as an area of interest, although the work they were doing was certainly of great interest to me.

 From what i gather there was a cut-off of June 30 for sign-up with ALOV, they extended that and also had a meeting at RD banks Chevy in Champion. This may not be news to some of you, but i had not come across the posting until after. The word i got from an individual at ALOV was that Chesapeake set a northern geographical cut-off in Trumbull county of St.Rt.88, again this may not be a newsworthy flash to some. Many landowners attended, more than expected according again to a source at ALOV, and signed up their acreage.

Now heres the news, ALOV has agreed to start a "Waiting List" of still more interested parties from areas north of St.Rt.88. If you call them with name, address and phone number they will put you on the list, and depending on level of interest, they may choose to represent us as a group in a similiar fashion, with the same or even better terms to Chesapeake, or another interested party.

So call up ALOV, their number is listed on their site www.alov.us , and ask to be included in their next go around. From where i stand why re-invent the wheel, they already have done the groundwork and have the attention of the industry on favorable terms, lets ask them to either start another "Pool" to include us, or come work with us to the same end.

If you have information to share, please join in the discussion, Thanks 

 Hello again to all my fellow Utica Shale Owners. I Just stopped in to ask if there were any who signed with BP from the ALOV Northern Trumbull county group, that resulted from these efforts, still around.

Has anyone had any conversations/correspondence from BP concerning title defects, or other issues that would delay payment or affect your lease, or gotten a check for Bonus money? 

 

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Permalink Reply by Steven Kacerski on August 17, 2012 at 9:05am

Fang,

I'm glad we can have a reasoned conversation. I agree with you on the potential negative impact for certain landowners due to the size of the group. To have a group of 1500 to 2000 people all receive the best offer is virtually impossible.  I agree with you and I'm sure others posting here would to.  I went back to some of your posts you made back in April and you said the same thing there, so there is no need to argue your position because it hasn't changed.  I live near the PA line and at that time, no one that had approached me or I contacted was near the $3900 per acre offer.  I could have been part of the group that would have received less than $3900 since I'm not in the sweat spot area of the projected wet gas window.  Who knows.  If BP doesn't pay by 10/1, then sure I'll reconsider re-signing with them.  I know Dave from SIF has made some inroads with my neighbors so maybe I'll end up giving him a call.  Yes, there are other leases that offer a gross royalty, but that is only good if they actually drill.  I think we have beat that horse to death a number of times already, so no need to keep harping on the royalty situation.

Permalink Reply by Kevin Rishaw on August 16, 2012 at 2:15pm

On a side note, Any check news?

Permalink Reply by Debby Melvin on August 16, 2012 at 5:05pm

Nope...still waiting at the end of the driveway to spot the FedEx truck!

Permalink Reply by Landowner on August 16, 2012 at 9:07pm
My parents and my aunt received their checks the first week of August. They both have 5 acres and signed at the end of May. We were the last people to finish our paperwork on the same day in May. We have not received our check. We live next door to my parents and we have just under 5 acres. I do see a plethora of FedEx trucks up and down the road. No real news, we just thought we would share what we knew, which isn't much.
Permalink Reply by Kenny on August 16, 2012 at 5:26pm
Shale Investment Fund is a "flipper". They can offer what they want but it will be a moot point if they can't find a buyer with the capacity to drill wells.
Permalink Reply by Chuck Davis on August 16, 2012 at 8:22pm

Yes ALOV is a flipper but good luck finding a company who will flip your mineral rights for $135

Permalink Reply by Kenny on August 16, 2012 at 8:56pm

Fang

You are thinking or a broker, not a "flipper".  You are right in the fact that most companies use a leasing agent, but the key difference between a leasing agent, or broker as we call it in the industry, and a "flipper" is that a broker takes their leases in the name of their client (much like the companies you listed above).  A "flipper" takes a lease in their own name (much of the time they dont have the money to cover the bonus payment, which we in the industry call a "cold draft") with the intention of selling it to an operator, like BP or Chesapeake, at a profit.

They may buy the lease at $4500/acre and 18% but will sell it to CHK for $5000/acre and 20% while keeping the difference for themselves, if effect, taking out of the landowners pocket.  If they dont get it sold, then the landowners dont get paid which in turns cause all kinds of trouble.

Brokers get paid directly by the client to take leases on their behalf.  They get paid what is called a day rate in the industry which basically equates to a salary for a contractor.  They get paid a set rate per day that they work on the project, regardless of the outcome of the day.

ALOV is what I would loosely call a landowners group.  ALOV (from my understanding) brought together a group of landowners and helped negotiate what they felt was a fair deal and BP just happened to pick up that acreage.  They also put together acreage in other areas and the landowners signed with CHK.  You will notice however, that all of the leases that were taken had BP or CHK listed as the Lessee.

I am own a brokerage, or leasing agent as you call it, and I know for a fact that Shale Investment Fund is a "flipper" as the tried to sell some of their holdings to my client and we weren't interested.  They have sold some of their interests to Halcon, which is the reason you think they work for them.

The quickest way to tell a broker from a "flipper" is whose name is listed as the Lessee in the lease.  If they are a "flipper" then it will be that companies name instead of the operator they claim to be working for.

Permalink Reply by Kenny on August 16, 2012 at 9:39pm
fang

I can't say either way whether flippers haven't paid, the only company that comes to mind is Shell/Holland asking for extensions when they haven't made their payment date.

Dave

I haven't said that SIF hasn't paid, I simply stated that they are a flipper, if they were contracted by Halcon then they wouldn't be trying to sell interests to my client, who isn't Halcon. they have started an education fund and bought livestock at county fairs, good for them I am glad they are helping the community, I can do the same. that doesn't change the fact that they are flipping leases for a profit.
Permalink Reply by lynn on August 17, 2012 at 9:29pm

Karen-we joined ALOV primarily because the company leases we were offered were not landowner friendly and we couldn't afford to pay an attorney to do the add ons we felt we had to have.  As others have said they weren't good at holding our hands during the negotiations but they always answered the questions they could and they came through with what we felt was an excellent deal.  Bob Rea always said that each negotiation was a learning experience-we did better than his group-the next a little better than ours etc.  If you are looking for a group they are great people.

Permalink Reply by James Kerns on August 17, 2012 at 7:53am

Hello to all,

I have a couple points i wish to make, as an ALOV Trumbull county Lessor;

When ALOV notified the members they had a deal to present for consideration, the lease was presented by U.S. mail to those of us who are members with the numbers blanks yet filled in until the call for a vote meeting. The numbers were presented at the meeting.  We were then given MINUTES to consider the offer, then we were asked as individuals, if we wished to abstain from the vote and reject the lease, or  to vote, with majority rule. This was handled this way with respect to the groups privacy. I personally didn't like it, but this is how it went down, i understand why.

These were very personal decisions to be made by each landowning member, and nobody has the right to second guess or cast doubt upon anothers decision on their own financial matters or the disposition of their own personal property.

Were all adults here and since the discussions on this site are all eventually hijacked by naysayers and rabblerousers, i am telling you this is really become rather disrespectfull and insulting. This is why many of the old salts that used to be dependable for good solid information and newsworthy discussion, really don't bother to post on here any more.

Another topic is the distinctions to be made between passing along actionable information and baiting others into discussions only to then self promote your own biased agenda. As a group we are no longer self policing trolls and such, and our moderator has not been visibly taking actions against same.

 Now i have stated this position before, i am not pleased with each and every clause in the lease, with ALOV's manner in which they fail to communicate bits of information and updates to their members, and how the final meeting was handled, BUT all of that aside, it was MY choice to make and mine alone, where my property was concerned.

Now you can have the finest legal minds in the world draft a lease in which all points are in your favor, but best of luck getting Mega Oil and Gas Co. to sign it.

By the same token, you can also fields offers for leases with the top leading offers of Bonus Money and Royalty payments, but then come to find you have given total unrestricted access to your property and it's riches.

The landmen and "landowner groups" can both make you offers and verbally promise you everything under the sun, but if they dont pay on time, tie up your land with no recourse to you, or you come later to find you signed a biolerplate lease that gives away your property and everything else with it for some cash in hand, then how are you going to feel?

Are you gonna sue because you were foolish enough to believe the Super Slick used car salesman, and now have Buyers Remorse?

You really can not have your cake and eat it to.

This discussion is about ALOV Trumbull county members, their deal and their expected payment for the lease they signed, All others should go discuss their business on another thread.

Permalink Reply by Steven Kacerski on August 17, 2012 at 9:22am

Karen,

I doubt the reply was directed at you. I signed with ALOV and like other people have said, there were some flaws that weren't 100% in favor of the landowner. However, I think their lease set the standard others have tried to copy and improve on.  As was mentioned, we knew what we were getting in to. Knowing what I know now, not sure if I would have still signed with BP or not. I'm sure there are people that signed in the southern counties early on that wish they waited for a better deal to, but you can't change the past.  Take your time and review all your options. Good luck with your group.

Permalink Reply by Karen on August 17, 2012 at 12:16pm

Hi Steve, Thank you for the reply. I hope that reply wasn't directed at me, but I also understand the sensitivity of the topic...and I'm not sure if I should even be posting to this forum. But, I'm not sure where else to go to for help. Portage county landownders realize that we're not going to get a perfect lease, and of the people I know, none of us feel experienced enough to negotiate our own leases. Hence, the reason for contacting Buckeye Mineral...especially because of the great comments I've heard from the people I work with about the Trumbull county ALOV leases. And, in Portage county, we believe that if we stick together, that can only benefit us...although I get the feeling that Lario would like to keep us separate...not sure if this is true, but it's the vibe I'm getting. Right now, we're at the early stages of all of this...and I've been trying to find Portage county property owners who haven't signed with anyone...who may be interested in getting together and talking about all of it. And, I know, that eventually, all of us will sign. And, I get the feeling from all of the people I've contacted so far (in Portage), that they want to stick together...with or without a landowner association. Which, to me, is good news to all of us. So...we'll see what happens. Thank you again for the kind words and information!!

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