Comment

Comment by Bob Jenness on April 11, 2012 at 5:49am

I agree with Janice's comments, too, but would add...

If we replace "flipper" with "middleman" it would be both more accurate and  more rescpectful.  Both CX and NWPA are, in fact middlemen providing a negotiating service.  In my experience, NWPA's offer is "Pay us a small upfront fee and we'll guarantee to make you part of a very large acreage pool and work in good faith to bring you a lease offer with no further binding commitments"  That's a pretty compelling offer, and on the face of it almost sure to be in good faith.

CX offer is more complex - "Make a binding commitment to us, and we'll guarantee to negotiate the best possible lease for all our landowners".  Also compelling, but not so easy to evaluate all the facts to compare it with other offers.

If I have to go to a meeting and be a captive audience for a sales team, that reduces my certainty that all is in good faith, even though I have some very good (second hand, but very reliable) recommendation.

CX has apparently very good credentials for electronic information sharing, so why don't they put some of that (appropriately summarized and/or edited to protect deals in progress), and some verifiable negotiating credentials on this forum?

Same question to NWPA regarding verifiable negotiating credentials?

As to all the non-$$$ details of lease terms, I tried to start that dialog on this forum a while back, and got notable reluctance to discuss such terms at detailed level.  If both middlemen have to keep such details proprietary or in a controlled meeting, where's the good faith in that?

Finally, and perhaps most important, competition between CX and NWPA would seem to be a double-edged proposition for me as a landowner - I already have neighbors that can't be part of a drilling unit by production, and splitting  the  rest of us between 2 middlemen will make this worse.  On the other hand, such competition may drive the $$$ up - as long as I can remain free to avail myself of either middleman's service.

Comment by rex roae on April 11, 2012 at 4:45am

I'll give that a big thumbs up Janice.  Well said.

Comment by Janice L. Hancharick on April 11, 2012 at 4:33am

Please R. East, stop using the term "flipping" incorrectly.  According to your usage of this verb, anyone who negotiates a lease where $$$ exchanges hands is a flipper.  WHO or WHAT does not fit this category?!  Across the Marcellus/Utica plays it is clear that $$$ will be exchanged.  Cases in point ... an att'y, a law firm, a few neighbors, governing bodies of landowner groups ask for a piece of the pie because they have provided a service.  Who does not  pay for services rendered.  This is not a new concept. 

The sights folks have set their eyes on when approaching leasing should reflect a number of things, and the end-all is NOT $$$ although in truth that's what garners the most attention.

While you Mr. East, are blogging in numerous county group sites (can't tell where your AC is), your message is  consistently against anything to do with one company, i.e. CX ... a.k.a. CX-Energy.  This raises  questions ...do you have little else to offer and what generates this vendetta?   $$$ ?  Please check your shale terms dictionary before using terms incorrectly, and throwing a negative light on subjects that don't please you personally.  Readers have minds of their own.  Thinking people don't need to be swayed.

This is a ridiculous waste of reader's time when folks come to GMS for information.  Want to help Crawford and othe groups?  Explain to them about the infrastructure in their areas that relate favorably to gas/oil development.  The infrastructure that's in place and that being developed. Explain the % of chemicals in fracking water, because if that concerns them they should be made aware of other fracking substances already in use in other Marcellus areas.  Tell them not to be comforted by every protection spelled out in the front end of a lease, because they can be negated in later clauses.  People hold dear to many things beyond $$$ even though it IS needed to survive.  There are so many aspects of leasing that need to be focused on.  Do your homework and spread your wings.  Good, solid information on all aspects of making this shale play a positive venture for generations is needed.  Because of rapidly changing technology and ever-changing energy regulations and world needs, our country's role in energy development is key.  Learning yesterday's facts, today's realities, and understanding up-coming trends are all so important.  Share blog time on these issues Mr. East, because they DO  DETERMINE every group's success in getting a good deal. 

Since each group represents an area with unique geology, drilling history, surface activities, and goals, your research and subsequent writings for each ... at least all those you blog on ... should reflect their specific needs and possible ways to achieve their goals.  Give all these groups something more than what you see as a "no-no".  Give them understanding.  That's the reason they are on GMS!

 

Comment by Jim Litwinowicz on April 11, 2012 at 4:14am

R, most know I work on a commission basis. I don't like to put down the other groups but their people keep saying how bad Cx is so I have the right to point out the differences. Every company is different and people have the right to choose who they go with.

Myles, yes, I like to make money.  And what is great is that I make money by helping other people make even more money.  Sweet deal.

And if someone can't tell if a word is in his/her lease that is his/her fault for not reading the thing! And all he/she had to do was ask.

As for the unreadable post, I have fat fingers too and hate cell phone keypads! :-)

Comment by myles fetterhoff on April 11, 2012 at 3:57am

jim,  I think you just interested in the bonus money.  The comment.s you did not understand before was from my phone.  Only limited coverage from the country.  We don't want any of the bonus money from the landowners.  We just educate people and want a good contract! 

Comment by myles fetterhoff on April 11, 2012 at 3:53am

jim,

I talked to a person from Mercer who signed a Hilcorp deal.  They could not tell me if the word hydrocarbons are in his lease.  So come to meeting get no answers and we'll take up to 8percent of your bonus no matter who you sign with!

Comment by R. East on April 11, 2012 at 3:42am

Jim- What is your deal with CX? Commission? Daily/Hourly Fee? Percentage? Are you a landman?

In your last post you keep claiming how much experience CX has in the business, however, my research indicates they have only been in the business of flipping acreage for about 3 o 4 years? I dont have a problem with "opportunists" however, move on and let the NWPA do their thing. You're playing them like they can't survive without cx! I applaud them for doing it on their own. They hardly need an "expert" like cx!

Comment by Jim Litwinowicz on April 11, 2012 at 3:15am

David Hunt; during the PP they always show the deals made with Range, CHK and Hilcorp in the Lawrence, Mercer, and Beaver Co area.  They compare all the numbers and why each deal turned out as it did.  Last night we had 150 people there and they covered all of this in great detail. Don't know if you missed part of the other or they shortened it for some reason as I wasn't there at that one.

In each and every case Cx acquired a deal with better numbers and better terms than the ones offered by landmen at that time.  In fact, during the signing of a CHK deal in Beaver Co a women came in all upset  because she owned 200 acres and had just signed a lease with CHK two days before that was worth $500/acre less, lower royalty rate, and worse lease terms.....from the same company.  She asked our guys to get her out of it but there was noting they could do.

The first ALOV deal was in Columbiana Co for $2750/acre. Three months later it went to over $5,000/acre. The recent ALOV Trumbel deal was for $3900/acre when Mahoning is getting $5800/acre.

The Fryburg and Friendsville leases were signed years ago when gas prices were more than five times what they are now. And companies were busy trying to establish a footprint and competing with each other...unlike now when they have established areas of interest and do not cross into each others territories.

Your group has never done any deal. They hired a law firm to represent them. Is that firm dedicated to oil and gas business only? What other areas of law do they practice? Have they done deals with multiple groups and multiple companies? Have they ever done even one group or have they done just individual landowners?  Did they attend the last two NAPE expos to build the business and establish contacts? Do they have companies calling them asking if they have any land to lease?

Why are you putting all the risk of getting a deal on the landowners by charging fees just to join? Will the fees be refunded if they fail to get an acceptable deal? Will the fees be refunded if the parcels do not clear title? Will there be additional fees if things take longer than expected? Will there be additional fees if the law firm has higher than expected expenses such as flying to meet with O & G execs or negotiations take longer than expected?

Will the data be compiled in electronic form for easier access to distant company officials? Will that electronic form allow for them to over lay the slides with their proprietary siesmic and geologic data? Will that electronic form show individual parcel numbers, contact info, acreage, and more? Do you have any mapping so that members can see just how the membership is spread out?

I do not doubt the integrity or sincerity of the leadership of the group. I just don't know if they have the experience, resources, and contacts to get the landowners the best deal possible.

Comment by David Hunt on April 10, 2012 at 6:39pm

R. East No broker no marketer no middleman We are doing this on our own like many others have done and been very successful like the Alov group. We did hire a very respectible Attorney that has many years expierance in mieral law. It is easy to see you are a true land owner looking for the best way and by reading your coment I think you are on the right track

Comment by David Hunt on April 10, 2012 at 6:28pm

Jim I was at one of your meetings in Vernon about 6 weeks ago and the only Company mentioned was Hilcorp that is why I was asking about the other deals you mention. It is clear to me you don't want to talk about the Bonus and royalties because of the deals grassroots landowner groups have done that are superior to yours and I understand that. I posted on here to get the facts and can see I am not going to get them from you. I am looking at a map that a large drilling Co. put out a couple weeks ago and it shows Lawrance Mercer and Crawford in the sweet spot for oil and wet gas. Some one should tell them there is no oil here so they don't waste alot of time and money drilling. Jim I am not looking for a dancing partner so THIS DANCE IS OVER

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