Drilling Using NO WATER !!!

Why are we fighting the wrong battle? Instead of Fighting to Allow Hydrofracing using WATER, we could be pooling our resources to REQUIRE Hydrofracing to USE "Liquified Petroleum" ..

http://ww.gasfrac.com, a Toronto based firm, developed a technology 4 years ago to use essentially "Propane"  as the FRACING fluid..

1. NO Water exposure

2. NO Pollution

3. doubles production on all wells

4. NO cleanup after

5. Half the ware and tear on the roads

6. over 300 Wells currently in production out in the midwest

7. you undercut any arguement from environmental groups

 

Sadly, almost no one is talking about this

JM

 

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Permalink Reply by stephen weiss on January 9, 2011 at 11:27am

I know nothing about the process, and certainly would not suggest that hydraulic fraccing is the absolute best technology.

But I am confused:

1. Propane is explosive. Seems quite a risk!

2. Perhaps no "dangerous chemicals" added, but I suspect that there are plenty of potential toxic substances naturally in the propane.

3. Much has been written about methane leaking into wells. Would this method not increase the risk of gas contamination of water sources?

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 9, 2011 at 12:04pm

Your comments are intriguingly simple

1. keep in mind , you are drilling for Methane ;-) 10x more explosive than Propane

2. Propane is also one on the gases than come as a result of drilling for Methane, as well as Butane and couple of others

3. The Methane is already at the surface in the Rock everywhere in NYS and PA (nearly every inch of land) . If you drill a Water well and you happened to pass through a shale layer, you will get Methane in the Water. Towns like Walton, downsville etc all have Methane coming out of their taps , from Water wells ;-)

I can litterally take a glass of Water in any house in Walton, and LIGHT IT!!

Don't listen to the Propanganda too much and do your own research like I did.

I own 150 acres up here and am all for drillig, but I am scared of the Water/toxic  chemicals. Now I have seen there is another option , with far less risk and far more return...  and introduces nothing to the equation that does not naturally exist anyway ;-)

You see, basic Geology will identify that no matter where you drill in NYS and PA or Ohio, or WV, and even NJ you are going to hit  a shale layer with Natural Gas.. even if you are only drilling a few hundred feet, so it's intermingling with well water has been happening for centuries ;-) Methane/propane/butane  evapoates once air hits it.. Toxic Chems do not.. 

THe way I look at this, is mny fold.

1. he country needs a new source of fuel that does require exporting trillions of dollars to terrorist

2. I am sitting on a Gold mine, so why not?

3. Upstate NY has been suffering for decades of neglect and now can finally take advantage of something

4. A much cleaner cheaper source of energy

5. Jobs, Jobs, Jobs

 

It's Win/Win for everyone including the environmentalists...

 

 

 

Under  pressue and liquified

Permalink Reply by George Donovan on January 10, 2011 at 6:32am
A propane frac was done by a Canadian firm in Lycoming county in 09. I have never heard how it did. Can anyone else answer that.
Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 10, 2011 at 6:58am

there are 3 Liquified Petroleum fracs in Osego County, all are out producing the regurlar praxctices, Contacy Norse Enegy as wel as CONSOL energy, and GASTEM..

there are over 300+ wells in full production now.. with significantly better eresults than using Water..

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 10, 2011 at 7:28am
NYS test wells.. 
Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 10, 2011 at 10:59am

From what I have heard propane fracs are very expensive and do not yield nearly as good of results as hydrofracturing, at least in the areas that my company operates in.   Also, once the gas comes back to the surface you MUST treat it, which is costly.  

 

There is a reason propane fracing hasn't caught on.   If you're worried about the chemicals, Halliburton has recently released a frac formula that contains ingredients sourced solely from the foodservice industry.   Check it out. 

 

-Mike

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 10, 2011 at 11:32am

with all due respect Mike, your points are completely wrong.. a simple bit of research will confirm that. Keep in mind, that this technology is only 4 years old, and has had explosive growth over those years from  ZERO wells to over 300+ wells in production today. I called the company to see if they would send a rep to do a presentation for our own coalition, they said they would let me know. I was however able to spend 45 min on the phone with him. The end results were more than I expected, and he voluteered that they were expecting over 120% growth this year..

Liquified Petroleum FRACING has most deffinately caught on, and to be quite honest , I don't give a damn if the GAS compaies like it or not, I won't lease unless they use the safest most productive method available, and that as of today is to use "Liquified Petroleum" instead of Water and TOXIC chemicals..

It's our land , not the GAS Companies ;-)

 

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 11, 2011 at 3:28am

Jean,

 

With all due respect, what points did I make that are wrong?

 

I said they are very expensive.   They are.  

 

I said they do not yield as good of results in my area.   They don't.   I know this from real world experience. 

 

I applaud you for doing the research and trying to be out in front of things, but as someone that is in the industry I can tell you that no one is that awfully excited about propane fracing, especially with the expense of water disposal being reduced due to closed loop.  

Why did you completely ignore the fact I posted about Halliburton using a NON-TOXIC frac solution from food industry sources?  You can have your frac, and eat it too!

 

(just kidding, don't drink your flowback water). 

 

 

-Mike

 

 

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 11, 2011 at 4:35am

Well Mike,  I don't mean to b arguementative but, as  I said, I spoke with many people throughout the midwest (4 companies) ..and they are all jumping on the "Liquified Petroleum" approach.. and not a single one has told me that production was lower, quite the contrary.. as for cost as I said 60% more by most estimates , but it is offset, much higher production and little to no cleanup costs.

Road traffic is dramatically reduced as well, since you are not moving or cleaning large volumes of water, and thus less Diesal smog... Noise, wear and tear ;-)

I apologise for Ignoring the Haliburton Idea, but if it Uses Water, it is still less productive..

Basic Physics dictates this.. Gas expands naturally, Water does not.. unless heated and when Gas is heated, it expands considerably more by volume, thus creating a more efficient frac.. (The Driller at GASTEM)

As I said in the beginning, why fight the "Water" battle when we have an more effective alternative?

Permalink Reply by Mike Knapp on January 11, 2011 at 6:52am

Jean,

 

Propane fracing has been used on several wells that I know of.   It has been tried and tested.  Everyone knows about it.   No one uses it.   Perhaps there is a difference in permeability between the shales out west and here..  I really dont know, but the market has spoken.    If propane fracing was the way to go in the Marcellus, companies would actually be using it.   Companies like Range, XTO, Atlas, Anadarko know what they're doing.  

 

 

-Mike

 

 

Permalink Reply by FXEF on January 11, 2011 at 5:44am

Mike,

 

I think it should be noted that just because the fracture fluids initially used in the injection process do not contain BETX (benzene, ethylbenzene, toluene, and xylene); there is no guarantee that the flowback is free from BETX. 

 

With that said, let me make it clear that I think water hydraulic fracture is safe, unless there is an accident or spill.

Permalink Reply by Jean Michel LeTennier on January 11, 2011 at 6:52am

HI guys,

  Whether using Water is safe or not is still very much up in the air in terms of absolute (there have been many lapses by individual drilling companies)

 . My whole point here is that if there is a better, less risky, more productive, less controvercial option , why are we not pushing at a least reviewing this approach?

 I mean , if the owners of 300 + wells have embraced it, costs and all in less than 4 years, with not a single instance of pollution or accidents... IT must have some redeeming qualities ;-)

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