The most common accusations against shale exploration - and yes, ANSWERS
It seems as though these days people just aren't willing to do any unbiased investigating concerning the issue of natural gas drilling before jumping on the "stop drilling - natural gas companies are evil" bandwagon. It may not seem like it from all the news articles you come across, but the overwhelming majority of people are actually pro-drilling. However, the majority of non-industry people (regular citizens) who are actually voicing their opinions are the anti-drilling groups.
If you google Marcellus drilling, you will get 100's of pages of the fears of fracking, pollution, companies raping the land like coal companies, etc.. The problem is that the industry is painted as not caring about the environment, and going by its own rules. Here are the most common accusations against natural gas drilling. Again, take my comments with a grain of salt and do some real research on your own before believing anything. And by research, I dont mean newspapers, or extreme websites... I mean peer reviewed science literature. Here we go:
Q: Why dont companies tell us what chemicals are in frack fluids?!?
A. This is a claim found everywhere and it's such a misleading question. It's posed as if these companies are hiding something. The chemicals used have never been a secret to the public. I don't understand why this keeps coming up when the info is right there. Example: Go to Chesapeake's website. They put a large link to the "frac facts" right on their homepage. Yes, their homepage. It lists every chemical in a frac fluid. You may not agree with the chemicals involved, but don't say that they're not telling you. Next question.
Q. Why don't companies release how much of each chemical is in their frac fluid?
A. Is that really the question you're looking to get an answer to? If Haliburton said they were putting .0001 ounces of biocide per 100,000 gallons instead of .0002 ounces per 100,000 gallons... Would that change your view of fracking? This question is asked (like the specific chemicals used in frac fluids question) in order to make the industry appear as if it has a dirty little secret. Let's be logical, that small difference is not going to change your opinion, but it gives you the argument they're hiding something.
The exact formulas to the T are not known, but the general amounts are known (down to a hundreth of one percent). That's pretty damn good. Like the specific chemicals involved, this question has an answer - again it's plastered on Chesapeake's home page.
Q. We need to hold companies responsible for the wastewater! We can't let them dump it wherever they want!
A. There are actually incredibly strict sets of regulations for companies to abide by when dealing with their water. If you don't abide by them, you are gone - see ya, no drilling permits are issued. When I hear these claims I say to myself "Yes, you're right, we should be holding them accountable...We do. There should be regulations... and there are". It's like a person saying "We can't let police officers wear neon green dresses to work!"... Well, I don't think anybody is arguing against that. And they don't.
The industry IS held responsible. People need to understand that companies can not drill if they don't get every permit approved by the DEP. If the DEP approves it, then why is the "blame" (used loosely) on the companies? I expect the typical "because the DEP is in the pockets of the industry".. leads me to my next false statement.
Q. The DEP is in the pocket of the industry, that's why there are no regulations!
A. Well, we've discussed the regulations already as being some of the strictest regulations in the country. Now as to the DEP being corrupt. That's a pretty bold statement to make considering nobody has any information as to why they say that (funny word I call "data"). I'm not going to say show me the data because that's a defensive statement. I can say, however, that for every dollar lobbyists bring in for natural gas drilling, 100 are brought in by coal or oil. 1000 for renewables (biomass especially). To say natural gas has a stranglehold is... well.. just wrong. Do you wonder why the US has the most natural gas in the world, yet relies on it the least for electricity and fuel (generally speaking)? Even if lobbyists do get some more support for natural gas drilling - are you against switching from gasoline to a cleaner natural gas fueled vehicle? Are you against America being able to finally use it's own energy source and stop funding foreign corrupt countries?
There are literally hundreds of questions/claims just like this that have answers. I know, it is tough to be able to tell what is factual and what is propoganda when you are new to this industry. Even this post here, don't believe a word I say until you actually do a little digging from both sides. Yes, go check out some of the problems involved with drilling, then check out how companies are addressing it. Let's see if the extremists environmentalists have that type of comment ever (e.g. "go check out Exxon's safety record and come back to me"). They won't ever say that, because they know the truth is there which refutes their argument. I am pro-natural gas, a proud American. Go Marcellus.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dee Fulton on
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LOL!!!! LOL!!!!
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Sorry, Drillman. The "LOL" was a reflexive response to your post. I went back and edited it out and developed a more reasoned response but something went wrong in cyberspace and the "LOL" sneaked out there.
What was supposed to be posted follows.
Reading the TedX articles can be somewhat intimidating, but not above lay comprehension. It's not propaganda; it's the factual results of scientific study. This page provides an overview.
http://www.endocrinedisruption.com/chemicals.introduction.php
The details of the studies are contained within this page
http://www.endocrinedisruption.com/chemicals.fracturing.php
I encourage everyone to review these webpages in your own personal open-minded quest for knowledge. Just to whet your appetitite for learning, let me share a little bit.
Developing fetuses are particularly sensitive to endocrine disruptors. The effects of endocrine disruptors, which mimic the estrogen hormone associated with female characteristics, have been observed for decades in fish and amphibians. You know...those male fish with eggs in them.....stuff like that. What's really interesting is that now, in addition to the increased risk of breast and uterine cancer, anatomical and behavioral changes in male humans due to endocrine disruptors are being documented. Visit this page. http://www.teachthefacts.org/2009/07/endocrine-disruptors-in-nyt.html
It shouldn't come as a surprise that the chemicals have a demasculinizing impact on the brain as well as the reproductive system. Journaled scientific study has shown that male children exposed to endocrine disruptors in utero demonstrate preferences for less boyish behavior. Personally I feel a male child should have a choice in his interests rather than have, say, a preference for dance class over football prewired before he is born. But thats just me. And Dr. Adam Law.
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Permalink Reply by roy jones on
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Dee,
Thank you for bringing these websites to light. This is a PERFECT example of the garbage you all believe. You claim that this website presents scientific facts, and no propoganda. Are you kidding me??? Let's just pull out their concluding statements shall we:
"All meaningful environmental oversight and regulation of the natural gas production was removed by the executive branch and Congress in the 2005 Federal Energy Appropriations Bill. Without restraints from the Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, Clean Air Act, and CERCLA, the gas industry is steamrolling over vast land segments in the West. Exploitation is so rapid that in less than 6 months in one county, 10 new well pads were built on the banks of the Colorado River, the source of agricultural and drinking water for 25 million people downstream. Spacing has dropped from one well pad per 240 acres to one per 10 acres. From the air it appears as a spreading, cancer-like network of dirt roads over vast acreage, contributing to desertification. "
I wasn't aware "steamrolling" was a scientific term. Are you kidding us with this??? This isn't propoganda????? My god.
Thank you Dee, for you have further proved that the people opposing natural gas drilling focus on this type of garbage, and somehow claim it to be scientific truth. Can you really not see the propoganda in this website?
If not, then I suggest you visit the creationist museum in the midwest, they have a great "scientific" exhibit of children having dinosaurs as pets. No propoganda there, all science. Right Dee?
http://creationmuseum.org/whats-here/exhibits/
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Permalink Reply by drillman on
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Let's see what happens when you suck the tailpipe of the vehicle you drive. Don't think that puts out any chemicals? How about farming? Golf courses? The list goes on an on. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I'm wondering how you live without energy source of any kind. I wonder how you figured out how to post on this forum because certainly you don't own a computer. Why would you since you couldn't possibly have electricity (that more than likely is generated from coal).
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Permalink Reply by BuckinghamGasMan on -
So what does endocrine disrupters have to do with hurting people? I think you have to make the connection about how these disrupters will get to people to hurt them. That is the connection I look for and have not found. It does no good to say that when we find out it will be too late because I can say that when we find out that there is no problem, we will be shivering in the dark because no gas was drilled. I know blasters who work with dynamite (an obviously dangerous substance) but have no ill effects because they know what they are doing. Is it true that if driling professionals know what they are doing and are watched carefully by the State, we will have no problems? If not, why not?
Please don't post articles about toxic substances without giving a good explanation about how those substances will get into our water or find some other way to poison us.
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The comments from this person Dee are irresponsible, slanderous and damaging to an industry that is proud of its safety record. She cannot point to any conclusive proof that drilling in any shape or form has contributed to human endocrine disruption. She bases everything she reads about this on hearsay rather than factual statistics. She'll blame the industry for coverups. She'll blame the government for not doing enough or for failing to properly collect and study what she believes is relevant data. It's the same old story with these people. Spew lies and distort the truth to scare people over to their side. There really are two kinds of people in this world - leaders and followers. Leaders make their own decisions, followers have their decisions made for them by others. I think we now know which side of the isle Dee sides with.
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In one of those odd coincidences, I came across this quote today. "If you ever start to feel too good about yourself, they have this thing called the Internet, and you can find a lot of people there who don’t like you." ~ Tina Fey
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Permalink Reply by daniel cohen on
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Dear BuckinhamGasman,
Your last comment "how those substances will get into our water or find some other way to poison us" really brings us full circle. Can we agree that there may be a need to protect ourselves and our loved ones by making sure that our water is unaffected by the drilling process?
If our water was uncontaminated before the drilling process began, and later on we find that it is now contaminated, at that point we can take whatever action is appropriate to correct the situation.
In this regard we need to be able to hold the gas folks to being responsible in their efforts, and to help correct the situation. The question of "how did it migrate" is less important than the fact (if that happens) that it did migrate.
If you agree with this, then a general recommendation to all who are involved in allowing drilling might be to be certain to have an in-depth water analysis prior to the actual drilling, and periodic
follow-up testing to monitor the quality of the water.
What do you think?
Dan
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Dan: YOu're beginning to sound like Obama, always looking for people to agree with you. At any rate, the gas companies ARE ALREADY HELD RESPONSIBLE by law. Every drilling company I know routinely tests landowners water supplies prior to drilling in order to minimize the threat of a law suit in spite of the fact that the State of NY has no requirement (at this time) to test private well-water prior to drilling.
(Side note here): Having grown up in dairy country, around large agricultural farms, the amount of pesticides these farmers used should have alarmed people like you. Yet no water well testing occurred or was required. Farmers then sub-divided their property and buyers built homes and drilled water wells directly into the aquifer which one might logically conclude were contaminated from surface pesticide, storm water run-off and the like. My folks have lived in the same house for 30+ years and never once tested their water supply. I'm betting that most landowners don't either (although I would agree that it's good practice regardless of whether you're in a drilling unit or not).
There are state regulations that require drilling offsets from municipal water sources. -
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Permalink Reply by BuckinghamGasMan on
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Dan, pre-testing and post-testing is what my lease calls for -- including neighbor's wells w/in 1000 feet at no cost to them.
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To Buckingham:
You can learn about endocrine disruption here: Theo Colborn Addresses Air, Water Issues Related to Gas Drilling. This woman is a highly respected scientist. I hope it will help you understand the health problems that have been raised.
If you find yourself one of these days shivering in the dark, it probably won't be because New York (I assume we're talking about New York here) will have failed to allow hydrofracking in the Marcellus Shale. More likely it will be because the industry will have shipped U.S. gas supplies overseas, see Shale boom leaves industry considering US gas exports | FT Energy ..... You needn't worry, anyway. It seems the coal industry is about to get a new lease on life, nationally.
If it were true that drilling professionals knew what they were doing (deep shale deposits, apparently, are full of surprises)and also did not violate the law quite a lot, then a large, well-trained corps of inspectors might be able to curb the most serious spills, leaks, contaminated water and methane migrations, radioactivity, chemical vaporization and emissions, waste disposal issues, etc., etc. But New York has 16 inspectors statewide and will not be able to do much careful watching.
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