Comment

Comment by Brad on January 8, 2012 at 3:33pm

Adam,

You said, "Wishgard is currently in the process of getting a deal made for the landowners we represent so that they can get paid."  It sounds like those people entered into a half___ deal and everything thing is up in the air.  Are you saying that those people in Ashtabula County, who went into contract with Wishgard, are not guaranteed their 1600/acre at this point?  The flipper company that I dealt with in the past, to my regret, paid me directly and guaranteed payment within 90 days.  I just don't understand your rhetoric.....you sound like a politician.

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 8, 2012 at 2:32pm

Edward, I debate you publically all the time. Right here in front of everybody. The result is never different. You have your opinion as a person that has no experience nor received any money from any company nor signed a lease with any company for you to argue over who is right. I have held a check in my hand and know a number of people that have both dealt with Wishgard as well as been paid as a result. The list of clients include a former state senator as well as many lawyers, business people, huge coal companies, towns, townships, as well as villages. It is rediculous for you to continue to claim that the only people that ever signed with wishgard are uneducated. I think it is clear who the uneducated person truly is. When you actually receive payment and get included in a unit and receive your royalty checks, please look me up and I will gladly admit you were right. However, until you have ANY luck negotiating a phenomenally better deal than is being offered on the few acres you have to leverage the major O\G companies with, please do not waste any more of the people's time on this site with your incredible desire to give everybody your two cents. They have already heard it time and time and time again. You have very few facts and absolutely no experience on the topic, not to mention very little to lose out on either way compared to ALOT of other people in this area. Your credibility was lost when you began to advocate for fighting these multi-billion dollar corporations in court. Most of us are far smarter than that, but you are free to sign or not sign any deal you feel comfortable with, the same as everyone else is.

Comment by Depolarized Farmer on January 8, 2012 at 12:07pm

For what it's worth, I decided against signing with Wishguard long ago.  Signing with them wouldn't have reduced my risk at all...  rather, it simply would have eliminated my upside potential.  If Wishguard would have successfully flipped my lease, it would probably only mean that the $1,600 per acre I would receive was way too low.   If Wishguard is unsuccessful, I would have nothing to show for it except the headache of trying to get their lease voided.

I'm blessed with friends who are smarter than I am who have advised me to be patient.  I'm convinced that a careful and disciplined landowners pool is the best way to go.

Comment by Brad on January 8, 2012 at 10:29am

Adam,

Sounds like Edward is sure enough about the bogus intentions of Wishgard that he is willing to debate you publicly.  This sounds like a good way to get to the bottom of things.  Will you accept this offer? 

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 8, 2012 at 8:24am

Dan

What you say would make sense, EXCEPT that there is NO guarantee that signing with WishGard will result in payment!  As you say, those signing with WishGard have been predominantly older landowners and Amish...to see what WishGard survives on, one has only to find what these two demographics have in common.  Is it intelligence?  Nope.  Need for money?  Nope again.  Lack of Internet and any real capacity to educate THEMSELVES rather than being "educated" by Wishgard reps?  YES!  Even the Amish, who had originally been so willing to sign with WishGard, are now getting the word out among their community about WishGard as more and more landowners like myself have been distributing information to them personally.  WishGard CANNOT profit at the expense of a public that is well/fairly informed...

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 8, 2012 at 7:01am

Actually, Adam, as you have already pointed out, I DO realize that the price is purely speculative in any unproven area!  What I've been saying, and what you are unable to deny, is that NO LANDOWNER guarantees payment by signing with WishGard!  If so, then WishGard would be more than happy to apply terms in their lease that provide penalty payments if WishGard doesn't pay on a clear title lease!  How can you even begin to say that "risk in this case is shared by both parties"?  Let WishGard pay immediately upon proof of clear title and THEN risk is at shared!  Otherwise, what risk at all does WishGard bear...a few dollars for signs and venue rentals?

I've spoken to MANY people, both in real life and here on this site, who HAVE attended WishGard meetings...they, without exception, describe how WishGard reps continue to use scare tactics and high-pressure ploys to get landowners "frightened" into signing "before it's too late!".  That's not educating...that's marketing...

I understand WishGard has one of their "Informative Meetings" coming up soon in the township I live in.  I'd be MORE than happy, if you're willing, to debate you there about the benefits/downfalls of leasing with WishGard or any other flipper company.  Facts only...and you'd be able to be sure I'd lead off directly with what Chesapeake and it's shell companies did in Michigan, then let YOU try to explain how what WishGard is doing here is any different...

Comment by Dan on January 8, 2012 at 6:59am

It's all a crap shoot at this time for Ashtabula county. Can't really fault someone for signing early for maybe less. I don't walk in my neighbors shoes. Might be they are 80 years old and don't want to wait for 2-3 years for things to shake out, 1600 per acre probably enough at their age to be happy.  I know some of the Amish are signing ,  probably need less money than me to be happy.   Me ,  1600 is not enough at this time, but I will not need 10,000 either.

In the end weather you sign with a Flipper or a Landowner group no one will get paid unless there is a buyer.

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 8, 2012 at 6:38am

Edward, I do not understand why do not realize that the price offered in NE ohio is purely speculation. Yes Wishgard is currently in the process of getting a deal made for the landowners we represent so that they can get paid. As I said, like they always seem to do. Speculation by nature means that there is risk by both parties. I also like how you said you are tired of hearing about the money that Wishgard has paid out. I am sure you are as I am sure all our competitors are as well. However, arguing with success makes no sense. The other part that I would like to point out to you is that prior to myself inviting Wishgard into the area, there was next to no knowledge by the general public on the subject. It is Wishgard that holds town hall meetings to educate people. If they were trying to screw people over, knowledge would be the last thing they would want for the public. They could have made way more money by simply coming up here and quietly leasing property for $25-$50 an acre rather than spending money on venues to educate and spread the word as to what is going on. I am sorry if you cannot see how positive their presence in the area has been for the landowners that either do not want to gamble and wait or because of themselves or someone they know sitting in on one of wishgards meetings, now realize what they have and will not be taken advantage of as a result of the educational meetings that we put on.

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 8, 2012 at 6:34am

Bill

  I agree fully with your post!  I just by now have grown tired of Adam and his WishGard propaganda...would he like to post exactly what WishGard leased FOR in Southern Ohio and what they SOLD those leases for (and, also, what landowners who waited ended up getting per acre)?  Will he show ANY transaction where land leases values didn't go above 1600 (or whatever WishGard paid at the time) and didn't get leased for more than that, yet landowners got paid the agreed upon amount by WishGard at a LOSS per acre for WishGard?  Of course he won't!  WishGard, as are many of their agents, are nothing more than opportunists - VERY similar, in fact, to Chesapeake's shell companies now in trouble for doing basically the same thing in Michigan that WishGard is doing here in Ohio...

That brings up another point - I wonder how many of those who jumped on the WishGard "get rich fast at the expense of others" scheme have thought about the long-term ramifications of what their association with WishGard will mean to their reputations when they return to the employment they were involved in prior to WishGard's entry into the area these agents live in.  My guess is that many of these people spent years building the trust and respect of those in their community - surely they can't think that KNOWINGLY supporting and pushing what, in my opinion, is nothing more than a shell company, will leave them with ANY of the trust or respect that they previously counted on for their careers...

Comment by Bill Simpson on January 8, 2012 at 6:11am

The only way the real facts will be known is to take a look back at these posts at years end or perhaps next year. Either some of us landowners will be eating steak and some will be eating peanut butter. Sad to say, but it happens. Upfront bonuses, royal payments on gross/net profits,lease verbiage on the Pugh clause, well heads and everything else that most of us landowners do not or cannot understand will all surface as good or bad things when we look back after signing our life away on a lease. I plan on attending as many meetings as I can and listen to all the information that is put out to the group. Next read and ask questions. Knowledge is power. Also, once output results are out from the experimental wells then this may be a good indicator of where signing bonuses may reach and what royalty payments may be. I for one do not want to make a decision on the unknown. As mentioned by other posts if you sit and wait you may win or you may lose. Kinda like rushing into a quickie marriage when someone you just met. Both parties promise everything, you do not know if they mean it and just like a bad well they may not put out later...

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