Comment

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 3, 2012 at 6:24am

The major use of Force Majeur in the O & G industry actually won't ever be the "Act of God" type of catastrophy...it'll be government regulations and laws (such as New York state's ban on fracking)...

The ability to find parts, equipment, etc. you're right about - there's no way it'll ever be considered Force Majeur...

Comment by Brad on January 3, 2012 at 5:50am

Adam,

"Inability to obtain or use......." per the result of force majeur.  Do you really think that if given supplier cannot supply a given material, apart from reasons of force majeur, that it qualifies as "inability"?  There is always another supplier or piece of equipment that can get the job done.  Changing suppliers and equipment failures are a cost reality of doing business......they do not fall under "force majeur".  I think there is a big difference between your definition of "inability" and a court of law's definition under a force majeur clause.  I am done debating this issue with someone who does not interpret the clause in context and is flippant with words like "inability" .  Again, the sensible people on this form can figure this out for themselves. 

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 3, 2012 at 5:26am

Telling me to "lease my couple of acres and find something else to do with my time" certainly sounds to ME as if you have no respect for small landowners!

The fact that I AM a small landowner, Adam, just means that whether I'm looking at life-changing money or not, it IS important to me nonetheless!  The fact that I will still LIVE on my land means that I'll do whatever I can to make sure it remains not just profitable, but livable!

For me to see the obvious scam that flippers such as yourself try pulling and NOT do anything about it only hurts myself in the long run!

Again, I'm STILL waiting for you to post just ONE valid reason for ANYONE, large or small landowner, to consider signing with WishGard...

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 3, 2012 at 5:17am

Adam...when will you realize that each time you post, you show yourself to be even MORE ignorant about leases???!!!

DIRECTLY from your quote "..., and this lease shall be extended while and so long as as Lessee is prevented by any such force majeur event from conductind drilling or reworking operations on or from producing oil or gas from Leased premise."  This means the lease may only be extended by Force Majuer events.  As you so thoughtfully bolded in your post, inability to obtain materials, etc. is considered SEPARATE from Force Majuer.

WHY is it that WishGard has one of the most inadequate leases available, yet you try SO hard to belittle other, far better leases from others?

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 3, 2012 at 5:11am

Edward.

I have never said that smaller landowners are not important.  They absolutely are.  My point is that I learned a long time ago to never let the guy sitting at the penny slot machine tell me how to bet my money.  You are not looking at "life changing" money like many people are.  Therefore your risks are alot lower than alot of other people.

Comment by Finnbear on January 3, 2012 at 5:06am

Are either of these the draft lease off the ALOV website? Are either of them a final landowner's copy that was signed and paid and filed with a county recorder? The final leases that have been signed and accepted by CHK are not on the ALOV website and I'd like to compare what was accepted with what they were asking for in their draft lease. I wonder what on their "wish list" they actually got accepted by CHK.

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 3, 2012 at 5:05am

The force majeur clause is included in EVERY oil and gas lease I have read to date.  It is necessary for the drillers to protect themselves.  However, they are often times manipulated to include  language that creats loopholes that include things that ae NOT beyond the driller's control as the example I have just given.

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 3, 2012 at 5:02am

Brad,

The problem with the clause titled "Force Majeur" under the buckeye lease is that it includes more than "force Majeur" within the lease.  It states, and I quote" Should Lessee be prevented from complying with any express, or implied covenant of this lease (except payment of money), from conducting drilling (including fracturing) or reworking operations thereon or from producingoil and gas therefrom by reason of inability to obtain or to use equipment or material, or by operation of Force Majeur, any sfederal or state law or any order, rule or regulation of government authority ("force majeur event") then while so prevented Lessee's obligation to comply with such covenant shall be suspended, and Lessee shall not be liable for such damages for failure to comply therewith, and this lease shall be extended while and so long as as Lessee is prevented by any such force majeur event from conductind drilling or reworking operations on or from producing oil or gas from Leased premise.

This is a HUGE LOOPHOLE that I have heard is being used in other areas.  It is a loophole under the truest definition of the term.

 

My Intentions are purely to point out issues with some of these leases that the "average person" that is not fully versed in this industry can know what to look for.  I will absolutely agree that NONE of these leases are "PERFECT".  Some are alot better than others and following like sheep is not the best option for people.  DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH and make whatever the best EDUTATED decision is for you.  You and your families are the ones that is inevitably left with the results of your decision.

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 3, 2012 at 3:21am

Very true, Brad!

And as far as the WishGard lease goes, I DO have a copy of it!  Unfortunately, I'm not able to post it on here, but CAN send it to anyone who wants it (along with the many problems I have found with it!) via email.  Contact me at edgan75@hotmail.com if anyone is interested in SEEING why Adam is on this site (Now in Ashtabula's thread, previously in the Trumbull thread, among others on this site) unable to post as requested by myself ONE benefit to a landowner to even consider WishGard as a real option to leasing!

It doesn't matter whether you as a landowner have a lot of acreage or just a little (I have only 7 acres)...you have a valuable commodity!  Why waste what you already have only to allow WishGard to profit from it?  Doesn't it make more sense to wait things out a little bit, learn as much as you can about what options landowners have, and end up making far more money, better royalties, and a lease that has better terms that protect your land and the land that surrounds you?  YOU ultimately have to live on your land...WishGard is interested only in making money and then moving on.

Kind of like locusts, if you ask me!

Comment by Brad on January 2, 2012 at 5:27pm

Mark,

You are implying that the  "force majeure" clause allows the driller to use virtually any excuse to extend the lease - it does not.  The very definition/understanding of "force majeure" is that the operators inability to commence is based on an unforeseen event outside of that operator's control (war, natural disasters, moratorium, etc.).  That is perfectly understandable and if I was the driller I would want the same.  These clauses are not intended to apply to excuse failures to perform for reasons within the control of the operator.  Excuses would not hold up in a court of law.  The operator would need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that material or equipment could not be obtained because of "force majeure".  Still waiting on the pugh clause excerpt??????

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