Comment

Comment by William Ladd on May 1, 2010 at 5:31am

Yor are right in a sense about getting attention of some folks. The problem however might be the inability of articulating exactly what the thought is. Lots of folks, including me have difficulties in finding just the right words to express themselves. In fact very often the words they are using might just take other people off their idea entirely.


Like take the word "cool". To me, the word "cool" means "not warm."

Many folks do not have the education that others do. And some so called educated folks have even received misinformation their entire lives about something.

Better to listen, digest the information, look at different sources about the same subject and then discuss it with an open mind. That is all I am saying.

I read in the paper that there is a place near Laurenceville being built to take the waste water from fracking and then reusing it at other wellsites after being treated.

Maybe a whole new industry can be created with this treatment plant if the right people can become involved with it.

Bill L aka Bummy

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on May 1, 2010 at 3:34am

Bummy,
I generally try to reason with people and it's always good to avoid name calling. Every now and then it takes more force to get their attention. Not that I expect new information to flow in that direction anyway.
It appears that normal give and take won't work on this issue. Too polarizing, unfortunately.

Comment by William Ladd on April 30, 2010 at 1:16pm

I have a couple comments to make.

It is really not necessary to infer that someone is gullible or paranoid is it? Or make other derisive comments to folks who are trying to understand what this marcellus shale is going to mean to this country. All that does is to create anger and hard feelings. It does nothing to solve the problem of pollution wherever it appears.

In past years, byproducts were often thrown away as being useless. Research was done and consequently found that these "useless byproducts" were in deed very valuble.

Instead of being at each other's throats, maybe it would be a good thing to insist that more effort be done to find ways to reclaim these byproducts from the coal burning powerplants and USE THEM instead of just dumping them whevever.

Sure it will take money for research! If these wall street big Monkety Monks would invest in education instead of lining their pockets, every one including themselves could have a much better standard of living.

Our natural resources are being used up or more likely being wasted faster and faster in the name of making another dollar. Look at the oil rig fire in the gulf of Mexico and what is is going to cost. Seems like the priorities are all out of perspective.

Many Government people do not want any checking or overseeing of what industry is doing. Industry loves this thought as they can do as they please regardless of safety or health issues. These people dont want better education because their bank accounts will not be quite as overstuffed if they have to fork over a few extra dollars for better schools or less well off financially students, but just as bright or maybe even better qualified as far as intelligence goes.

Bill L.
aka Bummy

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on April 30, 2010 at 9:00am

CJK-
Here is a quote from your post:
"By the way Dimock has not been the first contamination it has happened more often than it should have out west and in fact in the western part of the state what about the Monongahela River? Also the fact is that many of the problems go unreported and settled by the gas companies to avoid bad press."

This one sentence bothered me for three different reasons. And the fact that you wrote and believe this is unsettling, because it means that either you are gullible or paranoid (but I hope neither is true). Here is why:

1. Dimock. Good Lord, it has been proven by everyone involved that naturally occurring methane gas is in the water there. It may have come up when underground pressure was changed, but it was certainly NOT caused by fracing. Ask a geologist why it happened and get the scientific answer.

2. Monongahela River was contaminated by gas drilling? And you have proven this how? Please read this article in the NY TImes which explains how the river became polluted most recently. The short version is that coal burning power plants were putting out air pollution, people complained, the plants had to install scrubbers to clean the air and it worked, but the scrubbers dump the pollution into the river instead now. How quickly people forget when they are looking for someone to blame. Here is the link to the article. I think you would be interested anyway.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/us/13water.html?_r=1

3. This brought to mind the phrase, "judge, jury and executioner". The last sentence I quote from you regarding the FACT that gas companies are constantly causing problems which go unreported and get swept under the rug. It made me think of those people who think the government is watching them with black helecopters. WHERE IN THE WORLD DID THAT FACT COME FROM? Please, I'm dying to hear the source.

Comment by Eberhard Brendan Carroll on April 30, 2010 at 7:18am

Bummy, thank you for serving our country.

CJK, the easiest measure of the resources used in the extraction of a commodity is it's price. Coal is cheaper than gas, gas is cheaper than oil, oil is cheaper than bottled water, bottled water is cheaper than gold, etc. Of course their are exceptions on account of price fixing, marketing etc. Now keep in mind when we talk about cheap coal extraction, this usually involves strip mining. Most individuals who oppose gas drilling oppose strip mining as well. Again, the energy has to come from somewhere.

Eberhard

Comment by William Ladd on April 30, 2010 at 7:04am

Speaking of air pollution.

About 1960 when I was station TDY at Ft Bucanan, Puerto Rice, tracking the very early rockets There was two very bad sources of air Pollutions. One was an oil refinery. At times the wind would blow a heavy black and very acrid smoke over the Ft. Buchanan area. But even worse, there was a cement manufacturing plant right next to the fence around the military area. The dust and dirt from grinding or pulverizing very often would settle right on the road inside the fence. You could not see or even breathe as it was so thick.

Bill L.
aka Bummy

Comment by CJK on April 30, 2010 at 5:49am

Do you think I am that ignorant? I am aware that the stork does not bring coal.But do they emit as much pollutants in the process? The hydrofracing process seems to use alot from what I have witnessed so far. all I am asking is has anyone compared the two in the extraction process? I would be curious to see those statistics.

Comment by John Reed on April 30, 2010 at 5:43am

So har does coal get to market ? Osmosis ?

Comment by CJK on April 30, 2010 at 4:57am

John- you need to take in all of the aspects of gas extraction to make the comparison- gas extraction has alot of equipment, especially water trucks that no one has figured into those statistics what they are contributing, their statistics are just based upon usage not all that is involved in the extaction.

Comment by John Reed on April 30, 2010 at 4:48am

Eberhard, nobody is discrediting coal. The point being made is that methane has a much lower half life than CO2. Engelders comments explain this in detail. Howarth claims of natural gas being 72 times more likley to contribute to global warming is yet another half truth and can be easily used as a scare tactic. Engelders explaination is therefore very relevant. CO2 remains stable in our atmosphere for a much longer time period than methane.


Is global warming real? I think it is. Is it man made ? I think to a degree. Basically my belief is that natural gas is a logical choice for us as a nation to be used as a transition stepping stone. It's advantages to us as a nation far outweigh the negatvies.

BTW, global warming doesn't necessarily mean that we will not have extremely cold winters. As a matter of fact, if the polar ice caps melt at a steady pace we in this region are more likely to experience colder weather patterns. As the cold fresh water at the caps melt, it actually will cause currents such as the gulf stream to migrate in a southern direction. The US norhteast is very reliant upon the gulf stream to warm this area as is Western Europe. Yes, this is off topic but interesting none the less.

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