Comment

Comment by John Reed on April 5, 2010 at 11:25pm

From Robert Howarth, Professor Environmental Biology at Cornell University: ; re gas drilling. natural gas is mostly methane, a greenhouse gas with 72 times more potential for climate warming than oil.

Natural gas is mostly methane. I'll give the author that much. What he fails to say is that if used as an energy source it needs to be burned. The byproducts of burning natural gas as an energy source compared to coal and oil are far less invasive to the environment and the atmosphere in general. Natural gas burns 30% cleaner than oil and 50% cleaner than coal.

Comment by CJK on April 5, 2010 at 2:50am

I am cautious, not pessimistic. Why are you so trusting? I have seen way too much greed and corruption politically when it comes to big corporations, especially gas and oil industries. There is a huge difference in risks in driving a car and risks in not having water, I can live without driving I can't survive without water. Already signed thought I got a good lease with amendments and all. I did research it but I have learned alot since then. Live in Bradford County. Talking about you buying the land after the destruction is done. My feeling is that the land will not be worth much that is what I was trying to imply. Not ready to sell land that I have worked hard on stewarding.Our water supply consists of drilled wells, springs, creeks and other ground water.

Comment by Country Bumkin on April 5, 2010 at 1:54am

Why are you so pessimistic? Don't sign a lease then! I wouldn't drive your car anymore either b/c the risks of getting in a crash are pretty high--have you seen the stats on that! When I do get a lease, maybe I will buy your place. You going to let me have the minerals too? How many acres do you have? Where do you live? County only please. What are you using for your water supply? This might work out pretty well if the solution is that all that I need to do is buy your place.

Comment by CJK on April 4, 2010 at 3:28pm

J & J Lukens- I have talked to two people so far that have had success stories with wells. I have talked with others, about four that won't speak at all because they signed confidentiality agreements that say they cannot speak to anyone.
While I do agree that there are probably the same if not more successful well stories. I do not want to be the next unsuccessful one and if I am one of the unfortunate ones, will you buy my land and/or supply my land with water from your clean well for all my needs forever?

Comment by Country Bumkin on April 4, 2010 at 3:11pm

What laws need changed, Marie? What power do you want back to landowners? Who lost their power of ownership of their property--besides when the state or federal government takes your property b/c it's deemed useful for the greater good?

When you get the ball rolling, follow it!

Where are all the stories of the successful wells? Oh, that's right, the only stories that grab headlines are ones that portray the evil O&G companies as environment destroyers.

I've gotta stop looking at this ridiculous post....It gets crazier and crazier.

Comment by CJK on April 4, 2010 at 1:37pm

Another article containing Hilyer information and others:
http://www.catskillcitizens.org/update_sept_27.pdf

Comment by CJK on April 4, 2010 at 1:29pm

Thanks Marie for posting the two news articles. Unfortunately I think we are going to be seeing more and more of these reports. These people say that DEP is not even testing the water for the fracking chemicals. What is going on here, why is this so? It is also interesting that the advice being given is for people within a few miles of a drill site to get their water tested. I think there can and will be damage that can and will go for those distances.

Comment by CJK on April 4, 2010 at 1:07pm

Ruby: Tha family was the Hilyer Family in McKean County. The reason the DEP never verified it was because they did not have their water tested prior to drilling as required. In the end it was found that the company improperly installed the casings used to protect the aquifer, then the chemicals came out through the casings. Their water was so bad that it burned their skin when they took a shower. They tried to get an attorney to represent them but the gas company drilling in the area had engaged every attorney within a two hour drive from their home, when contacted by this family every attorney claimed a conflict of interest in representing him, this is not unusual. Not only was their water source contaminated (spring) but the quantity of water the spring produced was dimished substantially. Both DEP and Penn State were notified of this.

url for article: http://www.ridgwayrecord.com/content/view/144018/27/
Gibbs Hill homeowners lose water supply after fracking
Monday, 11 August 2008



Steve Hilyer retired for bed at 3 a.m., Wednesday July 30. But before doing so, he took a drink of water. His water came from a natural artesian spring system that ran from his springhouse on the steep hill on the property above his Gibbs Hill home. The week before, he had begun hearing the oil workers contracted by Seneca Resources Inc, fracking new gas wells on that same hill every morning from 4-8 a.m. Two months earlier, Scott Pruder, a Seneca Resources contractor and landsman had come to the door and informed him that the company was going to drill another well on the hill. He wanted to learn the location of Hilyer’s spring system. Hilyer showed the contractor the spring on his map, and warned him that the 750 foot-800 foot well proposed was too close to the spring, and that it would likely destroy his spring if placed there.

Hilyer awoke at 6 a.m. to his Gibbs Hill neighbor Clint Yates at the door saying something was wrong with their water. Yates had taken a sip of water only to have it burn his mouth. Hilyer also took a sip felt the burning, and later developed an immediate headache, he said. They called Seneca Resources and the Pennsylvania DEP, and that day, a local DEP agent came and tested the water, which seemed to have a heavy briny taste and smelled like natural gas, according to Hilyer and his neighbors. The agent informed the homeowners not to use the water.
That day cases of bottled drinking water were delivered, and on Friday, DEP installed a 2,000 gallon tank of non-potable to use temporarily to wash, or to flush the toilet with. That delivery system has ceased running two or three times since, and had to be refilled, and or repaired.
Hilyer is furious that despite his warnings, a well was drilled so close to his own water supply, and that the fracking may have destroyed a pristine, cold, and beautiful spring that had been there for hundreds of years. Hilyer fears that a permanent loss of the spring-fed system will devalue his property, and that in the future he will have to pay for the additional electricity costs of pumping a well, a costly treatment system, and for the system’s ongoing maintenance.
“A pristine, beautiful cold spring is now totally destroyed,” Hilyer said. “Now I have a tank of junk water, and I’m living off creek water and boiled water.”
Next door, Donna Burger and her fiancé Clint Yates have put lots of loving care into the fine home purchased four years ago. Having an endless supply of fresh, clean, cold water was an added plus in their decision to purchase the home, and hadn’t given them any trouble even in the driest of weather, Burger said.
But right after showering Wednesday morning, Donna Burger felt burning in her lungs and had immediate difficulty with her sinuses, which lasted several days, Burger said. As many as six days after the incident occurred, symptoms persisted, she said. Burger termed Seneca’s continuing efforts to get the tank of non-potable water running a not-so-amusing “comedy of errors.” Burger also fears that the drilling operations may have contaminated their spring forever. Visiting the remote hillside site, Burger said she found the usually plentiful holding tank lined with silt and its level lower than usual.
DEP public relations officer Frieda Tarbell said that her agency is “closely monitoring the situation” on Gibbs Hill. But, it’s still far too early in the investigation to tell whether or not the spring was permanently contaminated, or whether Seneca will be required to drill a permanent well for the homeowners, Tarbell said. The water sample analysis process generally takes 2-3 weeks to yield results, she said. DEP has taken several samples of the spring water, and it seemed to be running slightly better in the later samples, but until DEP completes its investigation, there remains the possibility that the spring still could be restored, Tarbell said.
According to the Pennsylvania Oil and Gas Act, companies that drill within 1,000 feet of a water supply have “presumptive liability” for damages if that private water supply is impacted. That means that the company is legally obligated to restore, or replace the residents’ water supply, Tarbell said.
“Our goal is for them to have water until we can get a better handle on whether it is a temporary situation. If the spring cannot be restored, we could have the company drill a well,” Tarbell said. In the meantime, DEP has ordered Seneca Resources to provide the homeowners with bottled water to drink, and with a temporary supply of non-drinkable water.
“The company is continuing to look into the situation to determine what happened, and to monitor the water quality,” said National Fuel spokesperson Julie Cox, speaking on behalf of her company’s subsidiary, Seneca Resources Inc. “Based on past practice with drilling operations, it’s expected (the spring) will return to the level it was before this incident,” Cox added.
“I think what we’ve shown is that when we find out there is a problem, we’ve offered a remedy for the landowners.” Meanwhile, “it’s not a forgone conclusion that Seneca’s drilling is what caused the problem,” Cox said. “That still has to be determined.” About Hilyer’s concerns that his warnings weren’t heeded, Cox responded: “Obviously as a general rule we try hard to work with landowners to come up with the best possible plan when we’re working to access our mineral rights.”
James Hughes, who lives a little more than a mile away on Gibbs Hill, suffered similar problems when, in June, 2006, drilling operations polluted his pond and dried up his private water supply, and that of his neighbor, Leonard K. Nelson, who owns a hunting camp. Hughes has filed a civil lawsuit against Seneca Resources Inc, claiming $50,000 in damages stemming the water problems and from having four well sites operating on his farm. Seneca Resources provided Hughes bottled, and nonpotable water, and 45 days later dug him a permanent well. The test well they initially dug caught fire, sending flames high into the air, and had to be capped off. The new well had to burn off natural gas for several months before it could be used, Hughes said. The civil trial is expected to take place next May.
DEP’s office in Meadville has been setting new records every year for the number of permits applied for, and issued, Tarbell said. In June alone in McKean County DEP issued permits for 58 oil wells, 10 combination oil and gas wells, and 9 gas wells, according to the OGM SPUD report on DEP’s website. From 2000-2007, 3,248 new wells were drilled in McKean County, making it the county with the highest rate of drilling activity in the state, Tarbell said.

Comment by CJK on April 4, 2010 at 1:17am

rfs- While you are correct with the Dimock wells regarding the frac chemicals, the action of drilling and fracing caused this I never said the fracking chemicals showed up anywhere in the wells of Dimock. But I do have a picture of frac water being transported in above ground piping that had plastic wrap around a joint that was leaking. Which is the danger that john feels is most dangerous, surface contamination. I also have first hand knowledge of a well out in Western PA that was contaminated with fracking chemicals as I have said before. So although I have not heard of any near yet, it has happened.
In the possible future when and if the fracking fluids migrate to the aquifer or elsewhere, how are we going to determine what well drilling caused what leakage? All of the companies will be blaming each other. I say that each company should be required to put a traceable disclosed ingredient so that it is identifibe to that company, then there will be no questions.

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on April 3, 2010 at 5:02pm

John is correct on this.
Nothing in Dimock had to do with frac actions or chemicals. The only thing found in the water was methane, either already in the water previously or now in there because the well concrete was not done correctly.
So anyone using the word Dimock and the word frac together is trying to make up stories.

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