Comment

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 7:39am

Thanks Bill!  This is where I think Tom and I didn't see quite eye-to-eye...I was speaking of NEW leases being signed, not leases being redone, reworked, renegotiated, etc. where rig activity is already going on on a landowner's acreage.  Landowners who own wells on their property already have a vested interest in the shallow rights that they wouldn't be expected to sign away, and as such has much more bargaining power than landowners with vacant land do...  :-)

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 16, 2012 at 7:31am

That's right Ed, I shared my personal experience once my name was brought onto this site. I hid nothing. That posting is dated in October. Other than when attacked repeatedly and more bogus information is poured on this site as fact when it is purely opinion, I do defend myself. I do not post on here as a promotion of any company.
Tom, bob rea signed a lease on his acrage in columbiana county a long time ago. What did he receive for his involvement with Carroll, mahonong, Trumbull? Not a better lease for himself. It must be the warm fuzzy feeling! Lol

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 6:41am

Adam

You do not promote a company on here???????

From the Trumbull County section:

"Reply by Adam Thomas on October 16, 2011 at 9:47am

Mr. Kerns,

This is Adam Thomas of who you spoke.  I am very pleased to admit that I do represent Wishgard.  I am a former client of theirs and when the development of the technology to commercially produce the Utica shale, I contacted them to come up here.  I own 33 acres of my own in Ashtabula county and I wanted to get my own property involved with wishgard.  I found very quickly that there was NO knowledge at all in the general public on the subject.   I invited Wishgard to come up and educate people on how the industry works and how the leasing industry works.  Before we started spreading the word, there was no ligitamate company offering more than $50 an acre in Ashtabula, Geauga, or northern Trumbull county.  Instead of quietly screwing people over and leasing up acreage for $25-$50 an acre and make millions in a few weeks time, as we could have.  We are offering as much as the market will handle with the information that is available in this area.  By spreading the word and educating people, we are eliminating people from being taken advantage of..."

I found this in less than a minute...no need really for me to look for more exmples on this site of you advocating landowners to sign with WishGard to get the "guaranteed money", as you many times have put it...

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 6:28am

Yes, I read the whole thread, actually - a LOT of reading!  :-D  I just know it's easy for someone to SAY something, but only facts will show whether what he says is true or not.  I saw where Nate was asked to show his leases that reserved/separated strata within the lease, but he never posted them.  I'm just thinking the logistics of a split-strata lease for an O & G company would almost always make them unwilling to sign one: Who controls the surface area, the shallow or the deep leaseholder?  Which controls ROWs?  In conflicts between the two, who would prevail?  I'm sure there are many other potential conflicts in this scenario...

Since I first started researching oil and gas info about a year ago, I have read a LOT of leases from this site and through Google searches.  I THINK that so far, I have read one signed within the last year where the landowner split his strata, and have read about a few others that O & G companies HAD to have where they were willing to agree to it.  Unless a landowner is fortunate enough to own acreage in one of these absolutely necessary areas, I doubt he'd have much success getting an O & G company to agree to splitting strata.  It IS always worth trying for, though!

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 16, 2012 at 6:19am

Tom, I never said all landowner groups are bad.  I, for one, see that alot of them are led by people that do not have enough information on the subject to be able to lead anyone.  In many cases, it is the blind leading the blind.  I am sure some groups are good.  But alot of them are being led by people that simply have no knowledge other than what they hear from people rather than doing the research and actually helping the people they are trying to help. 

I personally feel there is NOT a person out there that will devote a year of their life to people and supposedly make everyone else these "great" deals and make the groups millions while they get nothing.  Come on...  lol  That is why I am not in favor of the trumbull county group.  They deal with one company and do all negotiations behind closed doors.  The reason they are successful is because the average person takes the information provided by their leader as gospel.  They don't do the research on their own.  I have advocated education on this site time and time again.  How many times have I said, do what is right for you.  I do not promote a company on here.  I simply give my opinion.  The same as everyone else.  Numerous people continue to berate any person that does not follow their own beliefs.  I think it completely undermines the purpose of the site.  Whether you agree or disagree is your right.  Unfortunately, alot of people on here seem to be unable to seperate their opinions from facts and would rather argue than present information with an open mind and actually hold an intelligent discussion.  I think most people that come to this site are not interested in the continuous opinion based arguements.  I am sure you will bash me or attempt to spin everything thaty I actually said as you always do but I guess that is your right to.  I read that you got into a group and I hope it works for you.  However, I am sure you can at least admit that there is no guarentee to any of this shale thing unless you are in a proven area like you are.  Congratulations to you for being in one of those areas.  I am not and there is no guarentee that I ever will be.  As a result, I will lease my property and put the money in the bank as I always have because that is what works best for me.  I am not a big gambler and your opinion of what I should or should not do means nothing to me.

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 6:09am

Tom

I think you misunderstand me...a landowner CAN separate strata in a lease, but the problem now is trying to get an O & G company to agree to do so!  I've not heard of many landowners (except those few who have acreage that a company HAS to have) that have been able to do this...  :-)

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 6:04am

Adam

Find ANY lease that isn't full of potential loopholes!!!  As I asked before - why don't YOU post a perfect lease on here?  The simple truth is that the Pugh Clause you claim is SO bad really isn't - it has many escape clauses for the landowner...

As far as ALOV being a tool for Chesapeake, maybe they are!  Does it really matter, though, as long as the landowners themselves eventually get to decide on whether or not they were represented relatively fairly?  If nothing else, ALOV saves its members tons of work and trouble trying to negotiate for themselves, and gets relatively high lease amounts for their members!  I myself have problems with how ALOV has operated (mostly the lack of info to members during negotiations), but I'd feel a LOT better waiting as an ALOV member than I would signing early (without pay upfront) with anyone else...

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 16, 2012 at 5:09am

Ed, why is the wording even there in the Pugh clause?
...to open a loophole for the company they peddle their leases to. It starts out great but then they keep writing! Why? They had it right to start with. No need to write anything else if they were not opening a loophole!!! I am sure CHK requires it! They already have more acreage than they can drill horizontally in the next 10 years! Or are you foolish enough to believe that they aren't just a marketing took of CHK?

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 5:03am

Looks like we posted at the same time!  :-D

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 4:56am

Exactly, Tom...it gives BECK the the right to split and pool their leases, but not the landowners.  This is common practice between O & G companies, but rarely do landowners have an opportunity to be able to specify in a lease what depths they are leasing without extensive language also in the lease about surface use, ROW, etc...

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