Comment

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 4:49am

Tom

Thanks for hunting these up - I'd have taken forever looking for them myself!  :-)  The problem with them, though, is that they all deal with the Beck/XTO agreement - O & G companies often split the layers amongst themselves.  If the landowners DID sign a standard lease with no addendums, the they most likely are locked into terms that include surface down to whatever layer they leased to - often stated in leases as "Middle-of-the-earth" depth.  If this is the case, the landowner can't specify anything about which layer, surface usage (other than that included in their lease), ROW, etc..

    I'd have to see the actual lease to know if the landowners retained the shallow rights, and any surface usage protections other than what is supplied by a standard lease.  The standard Beck language you posted below looks like it allows the company to consolidate any parts of strata, not the landowners themselves...  :-/

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 4:23am

Tom

Thanks!  I looked through the documents, however, and the ones posted are just agreements between Beck and XTO.  Were there stipulations/language in the actual lease that landowners signed that separated shallow rights from deep rights, and made clear land surface usage, pipeline ROW, etc.? 

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 4:10am

Tom

I haven't seen the Beck/XTO agreement yet...you know of anywhere it's posted at?

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 3:57am

Joe

This clause in WishGard's lease:

LEASE DEVELOPMENT. There is no implied covenant to drill, prevent drainage, further develop or market production within the primary term or any extension of term of this Lease. There shall be no Leasehold forfeiture, termination, expiration or cancellation for failure to comply with said implied covenants.

This what makes the WishGard lease SO much worse than most other leases!  Those signing with WishGard (they never say anything to prospective signees about this clause) are further disallowed from what has become a landowners best friend when dealing with leases that are being unused/abused by drillers. Sadly, it IS a right landowners can sign away...but nowhere in the ALOV lease does it include a clause so detrimental to the landowner in the future management of his acreage...

I've brought this up many times in these forums, but with new landowners joining GMS all the time, I feel it's important to keep posting these so new members don't have to read through tons of other threads to get important information...

Tom

That's an excellent idea, but hard to expect from an O & G company!  Imagine the logistical nightmares of supply pipelines, surface rights, etc. for an O & G company tied to only deep rights.  Would work fine if the acreage is part of a horizontal drilling unit, though...

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 3:21am

Mark

Adam is trying to say that the Pugh Clause in the ALOV/Buckeye lease allows for drilling a shallow well, then before the end of the primary (plus extension) term is up, simply PLANNING to drill a deeper lease, thereby holding the lease.  He doesn't understand that this WOULD NOT meet the implied covenants of both production and use, and since landowners with an ALOV lease don't sign away their rights to implied covenant, they can challenge to have the lease terminated...

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 3:14am

I never said the Pugh clause in the ALOV/Buckeye lease was faultless...I said it was NOWHERE near as bad as you want it to sound!  WishGard's is no better (actually worse), and the difference between ALOV/Buckeye is that when a lease is presented to landowners in the group, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT IT!  They can decline, then keep their mineral rights to negotiate further.  With WishGard, landowners signing are TIED to the WishGard lease - no option whatsoever to opt out, no availability of ever using non-compliance of implied covenant to be released from the lease, and no legal way to ever challenge disputes caused by the lease in court!  The ALOV/Buckeye lease leaves intact ALL these options (including an option to go to arbitration over disputes, THEN the ability to also go to court if the landowner feels arbitor didn't decide the conflict on a LEGAL basis!).  You can say all you want that a court battle against giant O & G companies is unaffordable, but the landowners in Michigan that were duped by Chesapeake's shell companies who are now part of a huge class-action lawsuit against Chesapeake would surely disagree.  If they had to go to arbitration, they most likely would have lost since arbitors reach their decisions based mostly on what is common practice within the business, not what is legal according to law.  Most experts in the field of O & G law have already said that was Chesapeake did was illegal.

The ALOV lease as a whole is regarded as one of the most landowner friendly leases out there - no O & G company will ever sign a lease giving landowners everything they'd like.  NOWHERE (other than posts by WishGard employees) have I ever seen the WishGard lease considered as even acceptable!

Why not post an example of what YOU think is the best lease available?

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 16, 2012 at 2:51am

Ed, if you are telling me that there is not a problem with the Pugh clause in that lease, you do not know even a fraction of what you claim to. IT IS A JOKE!!! I didnt say anything about Wishgard whatsoever. I would much rather have their pugh clause than the one in the buckeye lease. My point is that the buckeye lease is nowhere near as good as many people want you to believe it is. Period!! You even have to be able to admit that.

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 16, 2012 at 2:39am

The Pugh Clause in ALOV's lease is NOWHERE the problem Adam (WishGard, of course!) wants people to think!  Explain WishGard's wonderful Pugh Clause and all the other problems with WishGard's lease before trying to tear apart other leases, Adam! 

Brynmore...as you can see throughout this site, WishGard is by far anyone's WORST choice to sign with - NO guarantee of anything!  Just negotiating with landowner assets, at best to make the landowner a small profit and the company a HUGE one!

Leasing in your area is still in its infancy - no need to hurry to sign...better to use your time now to learn all you can about the industry!  Signing now will result in one of two things - if area proves good for drilling, then you'll have way undersold the value of your acreage, or if area is not promising at this time then you'll have committed to WishGard for nearly 6 months only to get nothing at the end of the 6 months...

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 16, 2012 at 2:26am

John,
Do you really believe that he EVER did? Lol. Why do you think that all negotiations are done behind closed doors? Could you donate your time for an entire year, 12+ hours a day 5,6, days a week for nothing but a warm fuzzy feeling inside? Lol. You better read that lease, particularly the pugh clause in as it is a joke!!!!! I don't care who or when you sign with, but, if you can't read the Pugh clause in that lease and undrstand why it is so horrible, I suggest you do more research before you sign with anyone!

Comment by brynmore on January 15, 2012 at 4:24pm

tom , have you signed with anyone yet? if so who and why? hope that is not too personal of a question, and how long in your opinion should someone wait to sign with a group? thanks for your insight

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 46
• 47
• 48
• 49
• 50
• …
• 61
• Next ›
• Page