Comment

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 8, 2012 at 4:44am

How does signing with WishGard help people not gamble?  SHOW me ANYWHERE where WishGard guarantees paying ANYONE more than "one dollar and other valuable considerations"!!!!

I can assure everyone who has signed with WishGard will, after 120 business days, find out that if WishGard is unable to get 1600 an acre for the leases they have, then the landowner won't get anything either!

AND...I'm pretty sure everyone is tired of hearing out how much WishGard has paid out so far - why don't you post how much WishGard has profited at the expense of the landowners they have paid?  Remember, SOME of Bernie Madoff's investors also got paid...we all know what happened to the majority who invested with him, though...

I have in fact said that if the wells in this area send up a cloud of dust then lease offers will drop to nothing - are YOU saying that WishGard is going to pay it's signees 1600 an acre for worthless land???

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 8, 2012 at 4:29am

The advantage the people have by signing with Wishgard is very simple. We give them the ability to not have to gamble with(for alot of people) potentially life changing money. We have leased thousands of acres of ground because not everybody wants to gamble on the results of test wells and take a chance that they are not good. We are not proven in this area and I for one am not going to bet my $100,000 on the well being good. Wishgard is in the process of making a deal on the thousands of acreage we have leased before any well results will be known so that we can get everybody paid like we have always done. So to answer your question, Ed, the advantage is the fact that we are not sitting back and gambling on well results. It is absolutely the safest bet out there! I believe it was you that admitted that if the test wells turn out a cloud of dust then having signed for any amount would have turned out to been the right move. However, you are willing to gamble. You also do not have as much at stake as many of us do so please don't fault our personal decisions and I won't fault yours.

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 7, 2012 at 7:29pm

The REAL problem is that none of the companies flipping leases and trying everyone to "sign early or possibly get nothing" are promising exactly that - nothing!  If a flipper DOES pay a landowner, it means the acreage was desired and the landowner is getting less from the flipper than he/she would have had they waited.  If the land is proven to be useless, then the flipper will NEVER pay what was agreed to in the signed lease - they'll just not pay and the landowner will be released from the lease.  As I've said all along, there is NO benefit to signing early with WishGard or any other flipper - if there was, their rep land agents would be able to post AT LEAST one of those benefits!

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 7, 2012 at 12:32pm

The problem with this site is that many people on this site do not realize that a lease is a business deal.  You can put any restriction in a lease including that they have to level the snow if an agent of lessee disturbs it.  However, it is not practical and therefore a waste of time to write it as a lease has to be beneficial to both parties.  If a driller is unwilling or unable to operate under those terms, it becomes a waste of time.  A number of people seem to think that company "A" will agree to the same terms accross the board, in any circumstance.  It is well publicized that there are landowners that gambled and won in certain places.  These landowners and/or the companies that represented them, will tell everyone that listens.  It is self promotion.  However you must also keep in mind that the person that gambled and held out for terms they wanted or higher up-front money and held out too long and units were built around them or wells were drilled and it was found that area was not good, doesn't "brag" to anyone about how smart they were.  They are VERY quiet about how smart they were when those decisions cost them alot of money. 

    The thing people on this site need to realize is that the information available in an area at that time will make or break negotiations and offers.  Perhaps someday there will be offers of $10k an acre and 25% royalties in this area.  However,  they may never be.  We do not know what this area holds yet and when they find out, it will either help us as landowners in this area or hurt us.  The amount a particular individual wants to gamble is up to them but do not let some of these guys on here convince you that the only thing between you and HUGE money on leases is time because with time comes information and that information is what truly dictates the "value" of our properties and amount of leverage we have.  I wish all landowners good luck with your decisions and hope that you remember that your decisions will effect you. not the people on this site.  Do your homework and make the decision that is right for you and your family.

Comment by Adam Thomas on January 7, 2012 at 12:08pm

Brad,  The answer to your question is that yes the other fifty acres would be relaeased and not held under production by the fifty acres of a 100 acre parcel being included in a producing unit.  The lessee would have the option to extend the other fifty acres if they drilled in the 5 year primary term and they wanted to pay the extension price on the non-producing 50 acres or, although unlikely, technically the entire hundred acres if they chose to do so in hopes of drilling to deeper depths within that extension period.

Comment by Brad on January 7, 2012 at 7:44am

Nobody is saying that we are "tied" to ALOV/Buckeye - individual land groups can certainly use their lease as the baseline.  I am sure Buckeye is not opposed to the idea of making changes to their lease for each group that they represent.  Whether or not the lessee will accept these changes is a different story.  All I am saying is that the Buckeye lease is the best "baseline" lease going right now, and they are offering their services for much less than other companies like Wishgard, Tri-State Energy, and Palawyers.  At this point I see no better option than individual land groups organizing within each township, gathering contiguous land if possible, and developing their own unique lease per the use of Buckeye Mineral and their "baseline" lease.  This seems to be the most logical route to go at this point and I think Buckeye Mineral is thinking the same thing.  I don't think they are going to organize the whole county with scattered individual parcels.......that isn't as appealing to the lessee.  It is up to the landowners of Ashtabula as to whether they want to sit around and wait on a County wide group to develop, or if they want to be proactive and start their own group.   

Comment by Brad on January 7, 2012 at 6:29am

Mark,

I realize it is certainly possible to have a pugh clause specifying that any amount non-unitized land cannot be extended beyond the primary or secondary term.  I was simply asking Adam if the Wishgard lease has this clause, since he is so quick to belittle the ALOV/Buckeye lease.  Obviously he has not answered the question, so I'm assuming his answer would not be satisfactory to some on this form. 

The ALOV lease is certainly not 100% in favor of the landowner, giving zero protection to the lessee - no lease is!  It is admirable that you are aiming for a more comprehensive lease, but friend you may be left "high and dry" if you're too dogmatic and unrealistic.  Landowners need to use discretion in separating the essentials from the secondaries.  Anyone can pick apart any lease with an eyeglass.  The fact is, when looking at the "big picture", there are presently no other leases that offer more protection to the landowner than the ALOV lease.   Maybe that will change per the result of YOU and this form, Mark.......I hope it does! :)

Comment by Dan on January 7, 2012 at 4:28am

No activity at the Richmond site that is located South of State Route 6 on Pymatuning lake road.

Comment by Ed Ganelli on January 7, 2012 at 2:36am

Nope...from the paylawyers lease...

Comment by Finnbear on January 7, 2012 at 2:31am

I thought it was from the ALOV lease?

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