Comment

Comment by Eberhard Brendan Carroll on April 29, 2010 at 12:32pm

CJK - Now we are getting somewhere. We have to start by understanding the process. The proper casing of the well is what we need to push for. The surface string is the most important, not to say that the other strings are not important, but that is the final safety net to protect the ground water. Now I'm not familiar with PA's regulations, or the common practices there. What I have seen in other areas is that some operators will try and save a buck by using a cheaper system, i.e. extended C cement and minimum excess. Other operators would spend more and run a G neat with 100% excess. These operators never had issues with their surface pipe. Most if not all states require that surface string be cemented to surface, they usually require a bond log of this as well. With a less sophisticated bond log the cement may appear complete, but there can be channels that do not show up. Through these channels gas, water, and /or oil can migrate. If you want to protect yourself when leasing make sure there is a clause in the lease regarding the quality of the surface pipe and the surface cement job.

Regarding my compensation, not that it's relevant, I was making about $12/hour when I started. Hard work and dedication pay off I'm doing better now. My farming friends and I would defiantly take a heated / AC combine cab with the XM radio over being 60' up in a Derick in the middle of winter (uh ah my tractor is sexy.) I can't argue with you on the guaranteed compensation part. It does suck not knowing when, or if income will be coming in. Living without food... Yah, Yah, yah, you need food. I'd take water over food, and air over water. That's not the argument. To enjoy a modern lifestyle, we need energy, end of story.

The companies always want, "good relations." They will continue to give back to the communities and do their best to operate in a responsible manner. Sometimes things go south. Sometimes things were already south before the first microseismic study was done. Did Dimock already have Shallow gas pockets? I don't know the full story there, I'll have to read up for next time.

Now I'm pretty new to this, I haven't read all the posts, nor do I have the time. I'm guessing that you CJK do not have a well on your property. A question for you and everyone out there:
Lets take the worst case scenario of having a well drilled on your property. There was a bad cement job and now your well water is contaminated. Let's suppose that at first the gas company denies any responsibility, so you have to buy water out of pocket. Let's say you spend $50/week on water. Your royalty check is $30,000 / month, so you are up $29,800 / month. I know bottled water isn't as good as the tap water and its a bit inconvenient. So would you rather have the $29,800 / month or the convenience of good tap water?

Now, who knows what the odds are of your water being contaminated by drilling on your property? Real odds. Anyone?

What do you think the chances are that the gas company will maintain it's license to operate if they do not remedy the problem? You can make up odds for this one.

Again, Best Regards.
Eberhard

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on April 29, 2010 at 11:33am

Thank you, Eberhard, for a realistic statement by someone with experience. It is refreshing to hear firsthand the how's and why's, instead of being pummeled constantly with virtual lies and fantasy.

I find it quite sickening when certain people and organizations accuse the gas companies and their sub contractors of PURPOSELY trying to poison the world. I wonder what these detractors do for a living - do you suppose they could harm someone by accident in THEIR business?

Comment by CJK on April 29, 2010 at 11:13am

Eberhand- you have said it well- the companies are not taking the proper precautions when casing the wells, the integrity of the wells are being compromised and therefore the methane migration and whatever else seeks the path migrates to the water wells.

It is interesting that you speak of how hard you have worked, which I am sure was adequately compensated. If you would work a little harder in worse conditions for no money you might begin to understand what the farmers are facing, so that you can enjoy cheap food, which will provide you energy to continue these pursuits. Which is more vital food or gas? Try living without food.

If at this point in time when the companies are trying to establish good relations with the region and at the same time they are not owning up to their mistakes and causing unnecessary harm to residents, as in the case of Dimock.( The families in Dimock had to wait over a year to get ANY action with regards to their damages.) If this is what we have to look forward to in the industries infancy in the area, what are we to expect 5 years from now?
What is their reluctance for taking responsibility for the damages that they have caused? If it is not such a problem why is the industry avoiding it or covering it up?

Comment by CJK on April 29, 2010 at 10:24am

BTW as you say the increase in the methane in the water might have been caused by the drilling process or the fracking process, and more importantly the methane migration is an indicator for the route that the surface water was and can continually become contaminated through. It did not exist at those levels and extent prior to the drilling/fracking process. Ergo it is caused by the action of drilling/fracking, whether from drilling or fracking it is still the fault of the gas company.

Comment by CJK on April 29, 2010 at 10:05am

You are entitled to your opinion about Engelder and I am entitled to mine.

You are correct about the importance of protection in new leases, but that should not absolve the gas companies from harming ones that do not have protection.

There will be more cases of fault by the gas companies and they will work hard to blame anything or anyone other then themselves for the harm they will cause. They have the money and the ability to do that. So others need to help protect those that did not get all of the safeguards or we will all be losers in the end.

Comment by Eberhard Brendan Carroll on April 29, 2010 at 9:58am

So, brand X E&P company has just drilled a hole in your backyard. The casing is run, it's cemented in place, the rig is off location, the well is prepped for completion. Next comes in the evil frac company. They are going to pump poison into the ground in order to destroy your well water and kill all the fishes in the local stream right?

Come on, does anyone really think that the E&P and service companies are out to destroy the world? Although destroying the world may be appealing to some it's costly to be evil. Anyone in business is in it to make money, bad press and fines detract from profits and shareholder value.

Let's get something straight on fracking. It does not cause methane pockets, contamination of groundwater, etc. Poor zonal isolation does. What do I mean by this? Well, when fracturing a Marcellus well we are generally pumping into the formation at around 8,000' true vertical depth. It's debatable how high a frac grows, but let's say the frac grows 500' in height. Most fresh water aquifers are around 100-1,000'. So the frac and hydrocarbons are separated from the water by about 6,500' of rock. Now if the casing has not been properly cemented in place it is possible for the gas to migrate from 8,000' to surface. To protect the environment we need to focus on good zonal isolation.

As you may have guessed I'm in favor of the RESPONSIBLE development of our resources. I like to turn on the heat in the winter, I like having cheap food, I like to drive to work, I like working on computers, and I like having lights at night. I've worked oilfield, put in the 120 hour weeks outside at -40F to help America get the energy it needs. If you don't want to see our resources developed, don't fuel the demand for energy. Stay home, don't turn on your heat, don't watch TV, don't place posts on forums like these.

Kind Regards,
ebc120

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on April 29, 2010 at 8:35am

Englander was correct with the statement you quote below. The methane in the water was not from fracing, and was either naturally occurring or pushed through by the drilling process.
He has no agenda. His accomplishments already surpass most others.

Responsibility must be accepted by the gas companies -- IF AND WHEN they are at fault. In this case it is my feeling that Cabot was sloppy with their management of contractors, and they should have just dealt with the issues right away since no pre-drilling water tests were done.

AND, that is why there are thousands of PA and NY landowners who have been spending every day of the last two or more years CHANGING the standard gas lease language to protect everyone.

Comment by CJK on April 29, 2010 at 6:11am

rfs- my point exactly. Dr Engelder has an AGENDA as well, so take what he has to say with the same skepticism.
"One environmentalist recently pointed to alleged cases of contamination in Pennsylvania. But one was a clear case of methane migration from shallow pockets, not from hydraulic fracturing."
The methane migration is resulting from the fracking and now Engelder is tryin to say that arsenic, because it is not used in fracking canot be blamed on the industry, arsenic may not be used in fracking but if it results from the fracking procedure, the procedure can and should be blamd for that, and therefore the industry should be responsible for the cleanup needed for the damage.

I am tired of people trying to avoid responsibility for their actions and for those responsible having the ability to escape unscathed from the consequences they receive. For example the fine that Cabot received from DEP is a drop in the bucket for them, a mere cost of doing business, I find that intolerable and unjust. It certainly does not provide any incentive to correct their procedures.

Comment by daniel cohen on April 29, 2010 at 4:37am

With special thanks to Peacegirl, the following ought to be posted around the sites as we surf:

Report a Spill or Dumping
EPA Eyes On Drilling
Report non-emergency dumping, illegal & suspicious hauling, disposal:
1-877-919-4372
eyesondrilling@epa.gov

To report a spill in NY state:
1-800-457-7362

To report an emergency spill or release of hazardous material to the National Response Center:
1-800-424-8802

Dan

Comment by Robin Fehrenbach Scala on April 29, 2010 at 3:33am

Hmmm those comments sound exactly like Jim Barth from Damascus Citizens!
Now there's someone with NO AGENDA, right?

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