Comment

Comment by John Reed on April 7, 2010 at 7:43am

Everything you are stating is pretty accurate. However, when I feel misinformation is being posted I feel I have a responsibility to everyone involved in this to set the record straight.

You should be having this conversation with the anti drilling people. They don't seem to be open to talking about ways to mkae things better. It is my opinion they are out to completely tarnish and abolish drilling period. What they write gives me no indication their motives are to the contrary.

Comment by daniel cohen on April 7, 2010 at 4:48am

Dear John,
When you say "I'm all for protecting our land and water as stated several times in previous posts", we are in agreement. You also have stated several protective measures that you personally would follow, and recommend that others follow as well. Again, we are in agreement.

Our point of departure occurs when you focus on tangential side issues, and academic points of question. To engage in a tit for tat on posts that are related but off the main point is curious- you're too bright and well informed for that, yet you jump right in. The end result is to dilute your recommendations for protection in favor of academic debate.

I say again, you need to focus. Use that good intellect to help strengthen local efforts to protect our environment, health and property values. Help those of us who are trying to do that to do a better job. Shouldn't the emphasis be on landowner groups forming, topics to be explored, helpful hints/suggestions on how to help the landowner and the gas companies to have a better partnership in a an adventure that brings the potential for economic recovery and energy independence? That is where you many talents could serve a most useful purpose. Or am I wrong?
Dan

Comment by CJK on April 7, 2010 at 4:39am

This is the kind of oversight we currently have in our state. Beware the State and Federal Agencies are not in the business of protecting our interests.:
"Residents reported gas odors before explosion"

Thursday, April 01, 2010

By Janice Crompton, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10091/1047159-58.stm#ixzz0kQuRB3NB
The Atlas well burns on Wednesday.

Property owners living near the site of a gas well operation that caught fire in Washington County Wednesday morning said they had been trying for days to reach state officials about noxious odors at the site.

George Zimmerman, who owns the property where an Atlas Energy wastewater impoundment pond caught fire on Wednesday, and neighbor Kyle Lengauer, said they experienced a "horrendous gas smell" in the days leading up to the fire, but they couldn't reach state officials to warn them.

"We actually left our house on Sunday because the fumes were so bad and we were so nauseated," said Mr. Lengauer, whose lives with his wife and two children on property that abuts Mr. Zimmerman's 480 acres in rural Hopewell .

Both men said they heard a loud explosion at about 8 a.m. Wednesday and saw an impoundment pond on fire with clouds of black smoke.

"I saw about a 100-foot flame -- you could see it seven miles away," said Mr. Zimmerman, who is embroiled in a lawsuit he filed against Moon-based Atlas Energy last year, alleging that the company "ruined his land with toxic chemicals," such as arsenic and benzene, used in hydraulic gas well fracturing.

Mr. Lengauer said he contacted a hotline for the state Department of Environmental Resources on Sunday, but was unable to reach agency officials because their voicemail boxes were full.

"I tried to call them for three days straight," said Mr. Lengauer.

The man-made, rubber-lined impoundments are used to collect wastewater that's produced from hydraulic fracturing of gas wells. Water, chemicals and sand are used in the fracturing process, which releases natural gas.

DEP spokeswoman Helen Humphries said a preliminary investigation indicated that gas on the surface of the wastewater may have ignited the 100-by-80-foot impoundment and nearby equipment.

Washington County Public Safety Director Jeff Yates said the county's hazardous materials team responded to the site and used foam to extinguish a fire at a holding tank that is used to separate water and sand near the impoundment. The impoundment's rubber liner was allowed to burn out on its own, he said.

Atlas Energy, which denies the claims made in Mr. Zimmerman's lawsuit, said in a statement on Wednesday that it would work to find the cause of the fire, which resulted in minor slip-and-fall injury to a contractor.

"We take this situation very seriously, and we are working with local and state officials to determine the cause of the fire and any potential impacts," said Jeffrey Kupfer, Atlas Energy's senior vice president. "We anticipate the resumption of normal operations in the near future."

Earlier this year, the DEP fined Atlas Energy $85,000 for failing to control erosion and runoff at six well sites and for not properly discharging waste products.

Comment by John Reed on April 7, 2010 at 4:21am

Dear Dan. What don't you get ? I never said we didn't need to protect ouselves. As a matter of fact I have been quite clear that we do need protections.

My points were in response to a post that stated natural gas exploration is as detrimental to the environment as coal are more detrimental than oil. Also, it was in response to a post stating anything that comes out of PSU is suspect. How are my responses besides the point ? Thet are direct responses to a post ?

There are two or three fanatics on this site that are blowing things way out of proportion. When you start listening to people who say natural gas exploration is as detrimental or more detrimental to the environment as coal and/or oil, then you have become one of those fanatics. Basic common sense sees right through these people.
Most are also hipocrits. If they really believed in slowing global warming they would become vegetarians. After all, they're dairy and meat cattle supply 14% of the US contribution of methane to the atmosphere. They also fail to mention this. Why, because they have a vested interest so they ignore this part. Although they will not admit it, but they have one common goal. That goal is to halt natural gas exploration in PA, not to ensure that it is a safe practice. I see the rhetoric being tossed around on this site by a few individuals. Blatent half thruths and scare tactics. They are trying to influence the landowners to see things their way and they don't care how many lies of half truths they tell to get their misguided points accross.

I'm all for protcting our land and water as stated several times in previous posts. But do not insult my intelligence by by posting nonsense rubbish that only a newbie would fall for.

Comment by daniel cohen on April 7, 2010 at 3:53am

Dear John,
You wrote"Daniel, I am disputing that natural gas drilling will contribute to global warming at the same rate as coal and/or oil." "I am also disputing that Dr Engelder has been swayed by the oil and gas industry and that his research is suspect."

Both nice points, both clearly stated and both besides the point. Focus John- the issue is the need to protect ourselves from inadvertent mishaps, poor procedures and carelessness on the part of the Gas companies which can negatively impact our environment and personal health. What don't you get?
Dan

Comment by CJK on April 7, 2010 at 2:17am

I maintain that anything that comes out of Penn State is suspect. Penn State has known about this natural gas play for quite a long time, at least back in 2001 and they did virtually nothing prior to 2008-09 to assist the landowner, most of their help was to further the industries needs and not the landowner. Of late they have come forward, when it was too late for many. Regardless of someone's research when you work for an organization such as Penn State you follow their agenda or you do not have a job. Sad reality many people face and follow.

Comment by John Reed on April 7, 2010 at 1:39am

Methane is ubiquitous in coal mines. The gas, like coal, is a molecule made of hydrogen and carbon, and it is produced from the same raw material as coal, ancient piles of biological material, by the same processes. Much of the natural gas sold in the United States is drawn from coal seams. In undisturbed coal deposits, the methane is kept loosely attached to the coal molecules by compression; when the area is opened up by miners, the pressure is reduced and the methane bubbles out [The New York Times].

Comment by John Reed on April 7, 2010 at 1:29am

As far as Dr Terry Engelder goes, I agree that he is a very knowledgable man, but Penn State has been bought out by the gas industry so anything that comes out of Penn State is suspect.

Direct quote from your earlier post.

Most wells will be fracked twice. There will be exceptions, but for the most part twice. If I sign a lease it wil be mandated that water testing be done prior to any fracking as well as after fracking at multiple intervals. Again, I have the power to make this happen. If they do not agree to this lease condition, I don't sign. We all have the same choice. Also, as a landowner you can have a surface disturbance addendum in your lease agreement that mandates the company to clean up and restore the land. I will also have this in my lease agreement or I won't sign it.

Comment by CJK on April 7, 2010 at 1:19am

John:

I never said Dr. Engelder's research was suspect. I said facts are facts, what is uspect is his opinions and interpretations regarding his research. There are alot of assumptions happening with regard to the outcome of all this drilling. By the way I did watch one of Dr Engelder's videos and interestingly enough he said that a horizontal well will be fractured two, three, maybe even four times, to stimulate production, during the life of the well, So you are not only talking about the initial disturbance of both the land and the subsurface but possibly four more times of having the equipment on your land, at different intervals, injecting fluids into the ground over and over again. Do the gas company have to get your water tested every time they frac or just when they do the initial drilling? There may be quite a bit of time between frac jobs and the industry will use that time to their advantage to argue any damage that might be done while refracing.

Comment by John Reed on April 6, 2010 at 9:46pm

Daniel, I am disputing that natural gas drilling will contribute to global warming at the same rate as coal and/or oil. I thought I made that pretty clear. I am also disputing that Dr Engelder has been swayed by the oil and gas industry and that his research is suspect. I thought I made that clear as well.

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