Comment

Comment by daniel cohen on March 14, 2010 at 2:41am

Dear Gasman,
The exact equation of the two are not equal, as you point out. The analogy, however, is unfortunately much closer to the truth than not. We need to learn from that which has gone before, in order to prevent the errors from catching us. In both cases(Coal & Gas/oil mining) the bottom line is profit, the companies are in business to look out for themselves, pollution is a side effect of that pursuit and the landowner ultimately is left with the results. Have I gone astray in my thinking yet? The controls upon the industries (government,state,federal) have not in the past successfully held the vested interests in check enough to avoid terrible contamination from occurring. Have I overstated the logic case yet? And if I recall properly, didn't you in a much earlier post indicate that landowners need to look out for themselves, since industry is just doing what any business does-make profit for its shareholders.?(If I am misremembering and improperly attributing that thought to you I apologize in advance)

Don't you agree that a balance of responsibility is needed so that the errors, from whatever source, can be controlled to a much greater extent to avoid the pitfalls? Can we both agree, here & now, that our shared goal is for a win-win situation where the Gas/oil interests are met and the landowner is protected? To the extent to which we can agree, I'd look forward to hearing your thoughts on how best to achieve that goal.

Your comments in the past on other posts have been helpful to me personally in formulating my own views. I look forward to our continued discussion.

Dan

Comment by BuckinghamGasMan on March 13, 2010 at 5:59pm

Daniel, please don't equate NG in PA with coal in WVA. Coal owns WVa and coal mining is so much more destructive (as witnessed by the coaltop removal mining) than NG as to not belong in the same sentence. Please don't lose whatever credibility you have by making such comparisons.

Comment by daniel cohen on March 13, 2010 at 5:20pm

Dear James,
Drilling per se is not the the real issue. The questions to be asked and answered are more like the following:
1)Is there pollution occurring?
2)If so, who is responsible?
3)What can be done to prevent the pollution from occurring?
4)What needs to be done to correct the areas that have already been polluted?
5)What governing authorities have the responsibility for the oversight and control?
6)Have they exercised their authority to deal with the above questions, and if not, why not?
7)What do we, as concerned citizens need to do to make sure that the proper controls are being utilized on our behalf?

There are no angels or devils in this situation-there is greed, corporate profit, ignorance and vested interests. It is possible for us all to be winners here, but it will require us to be alert, responsible and legally smart. Sad, but apparently required now in the face of the vested interests whose only bottom line is profit. There is a sad story I'll share with you-

In Nov.2009 a documentary film premiered on national television that told the story of mountaintop removal mining in Appalachia from the view of those people who live an work in the coal fields. Mountaintop removal mining is an extremely destructive practice that literally blows the tops off entire mountain ranges in Appalachia. The resulting rock, waste and rubble are then dumped into nearby valleys, permanently buring streams. nearby communities are being destroyed by floods, poisoned water an intimidation from coal companies. Coal Country is a dramatic look at modern coal mining, telling the impact that coal has had in this region from both the mining companies and the communities affected.

I see the same pattern beginning to emerge here, and if we can partner up with the gas companies as equal partners, then the tragedies of the past need not visit us. We need to be responsible and very vigilant , along the lines of the questions posed at the beginning of this way too long response.
Dan

Comment by daniel cohen on March 13, 2010 at 6:25am

Dear J&J,Carolyn and John,
When John says"Everyone is missing the point" he is probably right. If the polluting sources can get us to ask the wrong questions, they don't have to care about the answers.
Carolyn is basically saying 'let's fix the problem, not the blame' to which we might all agree at least in part.
Guys, perhaps we ought to develop a set of questions to keep in mind as we address this issue, questions which keep us on the right track for answers that can improve the situation and help us to fix, not blame.

I'm reminded that many of the comments posted on this and other posts across the Marcellus site have a focus on jobs, money, economy,etc. I am left with a feeling that those questioners are seeking to know the price of everything, and the value of nothing. Perhaps we can address that perspective to benefit us all through the questions that we may come up with here.

Comment by John Reed on March 13, 2010 at 5:06am

Everyone is missing the point. Let's prioritize the issues. If you feel so strongly about hydro-fracking and it's detminental effect on the envirnoment you should feel much stronger against 1000 other things. As I stated prior I can go on and on and on. I can list one by one the things all around us that are far worse for us and the envirnment. Since natural gas exploration is new and fresh in PA it gets so much more attention than all of the other things far more corrosive to us as a society.

Comment by Country Bumkin on March 13, 2010 at 4:24am

We need to ban the resurfacing of our road systems. It's comprised of oil and other nasty chemicals. Also, starting next fall, let's eliminate the use of salt and calcium on our road ways in the winter. That stuff is destroying the environment as it drains into local ditches and streams. Don't forget to tax the farmer b/c his cows have flatulence--it contains way to much methane.

Come on, Marie. Wake yourself out of the obvious nightmare you live in every day. Maybe focus some positive energy for something worth while.

Comment by daniel cohen on March 13, 2010 at 3:06am

Dear John & Marie,
You both speak well and passionately. You've articulated the problems clearly in your statements.Briefly:
1) contamination can/does occur
2) we are all in potential danger
3) the responsibility is ours to make sure we and our neighbors are protected. No one else can be relied upon to do it for us.

I think that the focus now shifts to how can we best look out for ourselves, our neighbors and the environment. That is the point of Aquifer Contamination-Part 2 and your voices/opinions would be most welcomed.

Am I wrong, or is there another need that you folks are highlighting- that of being able to articulate to others on posts all along this Marcellus Shale site that which is most obvious to us here? If that is a proper read,then perhaps we need to form a ' flying truth squad' and make it a point to try to educate those on the other post areas. This will not be a pleasant nor easy task, but perhaps one that needs to be done. Personally I've been doing that in a minor way, limiting myself to the Pennsylvania posts since mt property lies there-but that is both short sighted of ne and somewhat selfish. John rightly points out the need to think bigger and broader about the issue as a whole, and Marie drives home the point with her her observation "epa just found out that they are still using diesel fuel !!!!!!!! ah... beef and veggies.. sounds like everybody will have toxins to eat!!! "

Are we in any agreement here about how best to tackle the problem?

Dan

Comment by John Reed on March 13, 2010 at 2:52am

Yet another scare tactic. I'm afraid you are 100% black and white Marie. You are only intersted in how badly you can tarnish natural gas exploration. I am saddened by your ignorance.

Comment by John Reed on March 13, 2010 at 2:39am

Marie. They use 4-5 million gallons of fluid for hydrofracking. 99.5% of which is water mixed with sand. The remaining 1/2 percent is a mixture of chemicals used in every day life by millions of people accross our country who routinely dump it down their drains. Only 30% of the 1/2 percent of chemicals in hydrofracking are brought back to the surface. Unless there is a break in the well casings or a spill on the surface there should not be a problem with our water tables becoming contaminated routinely. Does this happen ? Yes. Will it happen ? Yes. I believe it does not happen routinely however. When it does we need to have protections in place to cover ourselves and the gas companies need to be held accountable. Did you know that the amount of salt that we spread on our PA highways every winter is equivalent to the amount of brine returned to the surface of 31,000 horizontal wells? Keep in mind, the wells are a one time thing possibly two if they are refracked once. The salt on our roadways happens every year ! I believe the bigger danger is the stuff they are pulling out from deep within the earth that naturally occurs at these depths. (heavy metals and low level radio active materials) We need to push for laws that protect us from this much more than the chemicals used in hydrofracking. I for one would not allow a storage pond on my property. I would prefer that it be transported to a facilty and treated. If and when I sign a lease it will only be with this provision in place. And as far as I know diesel fuel has not been used in hydro fracking since 2004. Please see below from Wikipedia.

The EPA report did find uncertainties in knowledge of how fracturing fluid migrates through rocks, and upon its release service companies voluntarily agreed to stop using diesel fuel as a component of fracturing fluid, due to its potential as a source of benzene contamination.

Comment by John Reed on March 12, 2010 at 8:04pm

I've stated over and over that my opinion is that natural gas exploration and specifically the hydro-fracking process is the lesser of the many evils when we refer to potential environmental hazards. I'm not saying that it is 100% safe. I do believe however it is being blown up to a point that certain individuals are trying to scare the general population into believing it is a danger of far greater magnitude than it's history would suggest. There are documented cases of possible contamination as a result of hydrofracking, I do not deny that. Knowing that, it is my opinion that every land owner whether they own 1 or 1000 acres needs to become educated. They would be wise to join a non profit land owner group even if they currently have no desire to lease their land to a gas company. The education they can gain with regard to the entire process will help them to make a more educated decision. We should all be encouraging our neighbors to become educated, especially those we believe have the potential to be easily pressured by a land man into signing a a boiler plate lease with minimal protections. After all, what my neighbor decides can also have a direct impact on my land, my water and my ability to obtain fair monetary compensation. Natural gas exploration is here in Pa. It isn't going anywhere. From what I have learned it makes logical sense to pursue it. It's potential benefits far outweigh the potential detriments froma big picture standpoint. With this being said I need to continue to stay educated and the information that I gather along with my land owner group should be used to communicate our concerns to our elected officals. We ought to let them know what our concerns are so they may be addressed accordingly. Natural gas is the perfect stepping stone for our nation. We should continue to pursure "greener" alternatives to our current energy consumption. Solar,wind,water and yes natural gas. All of the above are with certainty "greener" alternatives. The use of diesel fuel, home heating oil, gasoline and coal are far more detrimental to the environment than natural gas. It is not currently feasible to convert the entire nation to solar,wind and water power and it won't be for a long time if ever. We need to move forward with caution and continue to learn as we go, making well informed logical decisions.

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 37
• 38
• 39
• 40
• 41
• …
• 46
• Next ›
• Page